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What REALLY causes school shootings

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MCalavera
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16 Feb 2011, 3:48 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Sociopaths. Period.


Really?

Here is part of what Seung-Hui Cho said in the video he sent to NBC News before his shooting.

"You have vandalized my heart, raped my soul, and torched my conscience. You thought it was one pathetic boy's life you were extinguishing. Thanks to you, I die like Jesus Christ, to inspire generations of the weak and defenseless people."

Do those sound like to words of a sociopath to you?


Seung-Hui Cho has been suspected of having some form of autism (I know a lot here would disagree with this but it's a fair diagnosis in his case even if it's not accurate), but he was also sociopathic in his behavior and it's his sociopathic traits that made him do the school shootings.

So, yes, a sociopath would easily say the things above. He was clearly psychologically disturbed ... just like a sociopath.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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16 Feb 2011, 3:50 am

Why would someone have a problem with him being on the spectrum? Fact is fact.

Many pedophiles were sexually abused as children. That doesn't mean I will be offended as a child sexual abuse survivor if someone points it out.


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16 Feb 2011, 3:56 am

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I believe suicide bombers tend to be lapdogs to sociopaths.

Me too. They're almost always young, impressionable men with feelings of hopelessness that these men use for their advantage
Quote:
Many pedophiles were sexually abused as children. That doesn't mean I will be offended as a child sexual abuse survivor if someone points it out.

:( *hug*


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MCalavera
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16 Feb 2011, 4:10 am

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Why would someone have a problem with him being on the spectrum? Fact is fact.


True.

Quote:
Many pedophiles were sexually abused as children. That doesn't mean I will be offended as a child sexual abuse survivor if someone points it out.


Yes, I read about your incident previously in another section. Good to know you didn't let this stop you from growing emotionally and becoming a stronger person.



marshall
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16 Feb 2011, 4:10 am

MCalavera wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Sociopaths. Period.


Really?

Here is part of what Seung-Hui Cho said in the video he sent to NBC News before his shooting.

"You have vandalized my heart, raped my soul, and torched my conscience. You thought it was one pathetic boy's life you were extinguishing. Thanks to you, I die like Jesus Christ, to inspire generations of the weak and defenseless people."

Do those sound like to words of a sociopath to you?


Seung-Hui Cho has been suspected of having some form of autism (I know a lot here would disagree with this but it's a fair diagnosis in his case even if it's not accurate), but he was also sociopathic in his behavior and it's his sociopathic traits that made him do the school shootings.

So, yes, a sociopath would easily say the things above. He was clearly psychologically disturbed ... just like a sociopath.

You sure? I think of sociopaths as cold-blooded predators. They are generally quite happy with themselves and well adjusted despite the fact that they care not for anyone but themselves and feel nothing but glee for the misery they cause others. They are machiavellian geniuses, often regarded as "winners" by society before they get "discovered" (see Bernie Madoff). On the other hand, most school shooters are miserable wretches out for vengeance, not true sociopaths.



MCalavera
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16 Feb 2011, 4:31 am

marshall wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Sociopaths. Period.


Really?

Here is part of what Seung-Hui Cho said in the video he sent to NBC News before his shooting.

"You have vandalized my heart, raped my soul, and torched my conscience. You thought it was one pathetic boy's life you were extinguishing. Thanks to you, I die like Jesus Christ, to inspire generations of the weak and defenseless people."

Do those sound like to words of a sociopath to you?


Seung-Hui Cho has been suspected of having some form of autism (I know a lot here would disagree with this but it's a fair diagnosis in his case even if it's not accurate), but he was also sociopathic in his behavior and it's his sociopathic traits that made him do the school shootings.

So, yes, a sociopath would easily say the things above. He was clearly psychologically disturbed ... just like a sociopath.

You sure? I think of sociopaths as cold-blooded predators. They are generally quite happy with themselves and well adjusted despite the fact that they care not for anyone but themselves and feel nothing but glee for the misery they cause others. They are machiavellian geniuses, often regarded as "winners" by society before they get "discovered" (see Bernie Madoff). On the other hand, most school shooters are miserable wretches out for vengeance, not true sociopaths.


I'm not a psychologist so I wouldn't know exactly what that guy had (which is why I said he had sociopathic traits instead of the actual disorder). I can only go by what I've learnt and studied about personality disorders.

However, this is not to say that I agree with you that all sociopaths are the way you describe them. Just like how each person on the autism spectrum is quite different in behavior and attitude from another person on the spectrum, it's the same with sociopaths. No two sociopaths are the same exactly.

In fact, one of the common traits that sociopaths have is poor behavioral controls. They may look charming and charismatically calm in public, but they are also known to be quite violent and aggressive behind the scenes.

In fact, nobody expected Seung-Hui Cho to do what he eventually did. All the people who knew him were quite shocked!

And no, sociopaths aren't necessarily happy with themselves. That's a myth.



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16 Feb 2011, 5:48 am

ikorack wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Yes, actually, it does.


Because sociopaths are known for committing themselves to future generations of the weak?


No, but they are well known to lie for no good reason other than to cause anguish.


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Fuzzy
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16 Feb 2011, 5:54 am

marshall wrote:
You sure? I think of sociopaths as cold-blooded predators. They are generally quite happy with themselves and well adjusted despite the fact that they care not for anyone but themselves and feel nothing but glee for the misery they cause others. They are machiavellian geniuses, often regarded as "winners" by society before they get "discovered" (see Bernie Madoff). On the other hand, most school shooters are miserable wretches out for vengeance, not true sociopaths.


No, they are not happy. The point of sociopathy is that they cannot take joy as a positive reinforcement. There is no benefit (from their point of view) to being nice, good, lawful.

And they are mostly not geniuses. They can be cunning, but they are far from brilliant. Lots of them end up in jail for the simple reason that they are stupid and over confident and their crimes get them caught out. The Madoff types are not prone to violence or common crime, so they thrive. A little intelligence and a lot of balls gets them pretty far in life.


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ikorack
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16 Feb 2011, 6:32 am

Fuzzy wrote:
ikorack wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Yes, actually, it does.


Because sociopaths are known for committing themselves to future generations of the weak?


No, but they are well known to lie for no good reason other than to cause anguish.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial ... sorder#DSM

mentions nothing of that, nor does the criticism section.



MCalavera
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16 Feb 2011, 6:34 am

ikorack wrote:
Fuzzy wrote:
ikorack wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Yes, actually, it does.


Because sociopaths are known for committing themselves to future generations of the weak?


No, but they are well known to lie for no good reason other than to cause anguish.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial ... sorder#DSM

mentions nothing of that, nor does the criticism section.


What part of

deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;

did you not notice?



raisedbyignorance
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16 Feb 2011, 12:04 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Why would someone have a problem with him being on the spectrum? Fact is fact.


Unfortunately facts don't mean squat once it's translated through the media. I'm not being paranoid, I saw that the media was heavily overemphasizing the fact the he was Korean. I mean really emphasizing it to pure annoyance. Is it a coincidence that my Korean friends and relatives were getting racially harassed by other people in the weeks following the shooting? I think not.

As much as it would've been interesting/shocking to hear that Cho was autistic, I can't imagine that the NT public would've taken that lightly and probably would've gone raging blind havoc on the autie community. What has the racial discrimination toward anyone who looks even remotely Arab in the post 9/11 world taught us? That the media is an evil and cruelly manipulative b***h with everything they report.



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16 Feb 2011, 1:33 pm

Fuzzy wrote:
marshall wrote:
You sure? I think of sociopaths as cold-blooded predators. They are generally quite happy with themselves and well adjusted despite the fact that they care not for anyone but themselves and feel nothing but glee for the misery they cause others. They are machiavellian geniuses, often regarded as "winners" by society before they get "discovered" (see Bernie Madoff). On the other hand, most school shooters are miserable wretches out for vengeance, not true sociopaths.


No, they are not happy. The point of sociopathy is that they cannot take joy as a positive reinforcement. There is no benefit (from their point of view) to being nice, good, lawful.

And they are mostly not geniuses. They can be cunning, but they are far from brilliant. Lots of them end up in jail for the simple reason that they are stupid and over confident and their crimes get them caught out. The Madoff types are not prone to violence or common crime, so they thrive. A little intelligence and a lot of balls gets them pretty far in life.
Just cuz they don't take joy in fuzzy wuzzy feelings doesn't make em unhappy. They're power hungry and predatory. And yeah it's true they aren't necessarily genuises. It's also true that school shooters are usually miserable, angry, depressed, etc rather than sociopathic.

One of the characteristics of sociopathy is "superficial charm". But that doesn't mean they have to be prince charming. It just means they have enough charm to come across as a normal person. Just like any other case there's a variation of intelligence and traits in general.

ASPD is a stupid ass label. It is basically a list of how selfish you are but if you aren't selfish enough to answer yes to the question "Would you kill your mother if you could get away with it?" assuming it isn't just resentment then you aren't a sociopath but you can be a scumbag to some extent.



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16 Feb 2011, 2:02 pm

There is multiple reasons why someone could go on a killing spree in a school.

1. Sociopath
2. Unable to distinguish reality from fantasy.
3. Brainwashing -- as in the case of many suicide bombers
4. Pushed way too far by bullies over the course of monthes even years -- more often these individuals commit suicide
5. Gang related


So again there are multiple possible reasons.



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16 Feb 2011, 2:51 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Why would someone have a problem with him being on the spectrum? Fact is fact.

Because people don't want "bad" people to be associated with themselves, while claim people to be like themselves when it isn't necessarily true, to make themselves feel better. For example, people claiming that successful people like Einstein and Bill Gates are aspies. :P

I'd like to posit that some sociopaths want to be caught. Sure there are stupid ones of us, but some are very intelligent; like yours truly. :wink:



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16 Feb 2011, 3:06 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
There is multiple reasons why someone could go on a killing spree in a school.

1. Sociopath
2. Unable to distinguish reality from fantasy.
3. Brainwashing -- as in the case of many suicide bombers
4. Pushed way too far by bullies over the course of monthes even years -- more often these individuals commit suicide
5. Gang related


So again there are multiple possible reasons.


This is true, but again many of those can (and often do) fall under sociopathy.


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TeaEarlGreyHot
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16 Feb 2011, 3:07 pm

dunbots wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
Why would someone have a problem with him being on the spectrum? Fact is fact.

Because people don't want "bad" people to be associated with themselves, while claim people to be like themselves when it isn't necessarily true, to make themselves feel better. For example, people claiming that successful people like Einstein and Bill Gates are aspies. :P

I'd like to posit that some sociopaths want to be caught. Sure there are stupid ones of us, but some are very intelligent; like yours truly. :wink:


I certainly have nothing against sociopaths that don't hurt people. I just don't get why someone would pretend one doesn't ALSO fall under a label they happen to fall under. Then again, I'm not big on lying.


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