a few inspirational quotes

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“Give a man a fish, and you'll feed him for a day. Give him a religion, and he'll starve to death while praying for a fish.”
Timothy Jones

“The more man clings to religion, the more he believes. The more he believes, the less he knows. The less he knows, the more stupid he is. The more stupid, the easier he can be governed! The easier to govern, the better he may be exploited. The more exploited, the poorer he gets. The poorer he gets, the richer and mightier the domineering classes get, the more riches and power they amass, the heavier their yoke upon the neck of the people.”
Johann Most

“Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful.”
Seneca

“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you'd have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.”
Steven Weinberg

“It is an interesting and demonstrable fact, that all children are atheists and were religion not inculcated into their minds, they would remain so”
Ernestine Rose

“I am against religion because it teaches us to be satisfied with not understanding the world.”
Richard Dawkins

Amen.

What of evil men doing good things?



Show me one child, just one, who was not "inculcated" with religion and at the same time not "inculcated" with its opposite. Just one who remained a tabula rasa throughout life. Whom has she in mind - Victor the wild child?

To replace [x] with [y]: All children are alinguistic and were language not inculcated into their minds, they would remain so.

And yet it's plain, from research and common-sense observation, that children are "wired" to learn language, it's innate to them to do so. In fact we never use the term 'alinguistic', but instead 'prelinguistic'. Should we stop abusing children by forcing them to learn our language and code our grammatical rules into their blank-slate brains? Should we not rather never breathe a word to them until they are old enough to decide whether they want to learn English rather than Igbo?

Here's another variant on that:

They say if you give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day, but if you teach a man to fish.... then he's gotta get a fishing license, but he doesn't have any money. So he's got to get a job and get into the social security system and pay taxes, and now you're gonna audit the poor cocksucker, cuz' he's not really good with math. So he'll pull the IRS van up to your house, and he'll take all your s**t. He'll take your black velvet Elvis and your Batman toothbrush, and your penis pump, and that all goes up for auction with the burden of proof on you because you forgot to carry the one, cuz' you were just worried about eating a f*****g fish, and you couldn't even cook the fish cuz' you needed a permit for an open flame. Then the health department is going to start asking you a lot of questions about where are you going to dump the scales and the guts. 'This is not a sanitary environment', and ladies and gentlemen if you get sick of it all at the end of the day... not even legal to kill yourself in this country. Thanks again John Ashcroft you weird bible addict, can't even handle your own drug. You were born free, you got f****d out of half of it, and you wave a flag celebrating it. [audience member]: Hey, don't hold back! [Doug]: You got an argument? [am] No, keep goin'!..The only true freedom you find, is when you realize and come to terms with the fact that you are completely and unapologetically f****d, and then you are free to float around the system.

-Doug Stanhope

If you tell a man a fishy story, he can quote it.

I wonder - if we took turns, the AGNATHs do a religion debunking quote, then the theists a religion advancing quote - how long would it take till one side ran out of quotes?

And which side would run out first?

And what would it prove or whom would it convincce -- of anything but the folly of debate?

children are atheists because they have no religion, no gods, nothing excepth themselves and their families this isnt about language first off and the point is that they have no religion until they are forced into it as most people are, i was until i was allowed to make the decision for myself a few years back whether or not i go.
my grandma claims my mom should have forced us to go to church until we moved out but in the end its our choice
if babies are raised catholic they will be catholic if they are raised atheist they will be atheist but they dont come out of the womb with a bible in their hands praying to God they certaonly do not

Right. But none of that is atheism. It's a lack of knowledge that spans all areas; I picked the example of language, keeping all else the same. Does the argument then hold up?

aint my quote not my place to argue its meaning TBH i just thought it was a nice quoten but the first 4 i listed are my favorites

I have never been to church nor was I raised with any religious values. I don't think comparing language and religion is the same. Language is necessary to succeed in society in general, religion is necessary to succeed only in a society of exclusivity that is not necessary for Human life whatsoever.



There was no process of indoctrination to make me an Atheist, there was actually nothing involved at all. The opposite to religion is 'anti-religion' which is a state of mind mostly adhered to by people who were forced into religion from a young age and then later abandoned it, often being ostracized in the process. Those of us who have never been indoctrinated don't usually hold any anti-religious sentiment. I can speak for myself when I say that. I don't know too many people like me though.

If you quote something...but anyways. Leave it that the claim is one of my pet peeves, being a bad argument that manages to insult everybody while posing as Deeply Intelligent; and I do love to flog my pet peeves to death.

Right - opposite was a bad choice of words, thanks for the call-out on it. When I speak of religion, as much as anything I have in mind 'a way of life': all of the codes and behaviors and suchlike that enable one to make sense of and to survive in the world. The concrete expression of one's values/beliefs, whatever they be. Maybe a flawed definition, but the one I work from at present.

You weren't raised with religious values, but you were raised with values; it's impossible that you, or I, or anyone, could be raised without any. It seems to me that for Ms. Rose's claim to be verified, we would need to find somebody who was indeed raised with no values, in no culture, with no language (since even language can shape how one perceives the world). Without anything that might sway the child towards faith or towards atheism. We would need, in short, to find an absurdity - or an example of the worst kind of child abuse possible.

You mean this guy:

@ JWC nice

True, true. I wonder what values the Sentinelese of the Andaman islands teach their children? That might be one of the few places in the world where you could find a child completely raised outside of any outside, Western or Eastern, influence. They obviously impart their religious and moral values on their children but I am still interested to see what kind of upbringing and view of the world - and especially the outside world - they have. Too bad the Sentinelese won't allow anyone to try and talk to them. Maybe a wise choice on their part, remaining isolated

No, because even that guy:

[/quote]

had these guys:



I was thinking more of this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victor_of_Aveyron . Or others like him.

Last edited by Natty_Boh on 03 Mar 2011, 2:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Do some research on ferrel (sic) children, and abused children who lived in extreme isolation (ie locked in a closet); they are fascinating. One thing to remember when approaching the nature verses nurture: all of the current studies into this dichotomy fail to account for the volition of the subject. Basically, no matter how bad the environment it is important to remember that you still have a choice, to allow yourself to be controlled by your environment or to control it.

Oh that one is very easy! EVERY SINGLE ONE OF FRED PHELPS KIDS, GRANDKIDS, AND GREAT-GRANDKIDS well only 9 of his 13 children and dozens of grandchildren are tainted by his evil the other 4 of his children he claims have "fallen" which means they are normal-or as normal as any human

In 1993, as Phelps' name became controversial in his home town, his estranged son, Mark Phelps, wrote a letter to his hometown newspaper, The Topeka Capital-Journal:
"I believe in God and the Bible, and my father's behavior doesn't fit the description of behavior that would show in the life of one who loves God; behavior characteristics such as Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Kindness, Goodness, Faithfulness, Gentleness, Self-control. Instead, my father's behavior characterizes, I believe, Hate, Outbursts of Wrath, Contention, Jealousy, Vengefulness, Misery, Harshness, and Selfish ambition. He mis-states the truth about his own behavior, about others, about the Bible, with apparent ease and regularity. He behaves with a viciousness the likes of which I have never seen. He accepts no genuine accountability in his life and is subject to no one. His lifestyle betrays the sacred trust of what a pastor, husband, father and grandfather should be. I suppose if a comparison were made between the life of Jesus Christ and my father, there would not be much to compare.
I believe that Topekans are making a good effort to try and stop him and should continue to do so. He can seem very intimidating. He can use foul language and come across with a booming voice to the community, but the truth is, like the Wizard of Oz, when Toto pulls the curtain back, instead of this big powerful individual, it's only a small, pathetic old man. I feel sorry for my father as I would for anyone who displays this kind of hate and evil viciousness. These can only be the manifestations of tortured, injured and agonizing souls."