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Abortion
Should be illegal, except in extreme cases 25%  25%  [ 14 ]
Should be legal during the first trimester only 24%  24%  [ 13 ]
Should be legal beyond the first trimester 47%  47%  [ 26 ]
Undecided 4%  4%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 55

Vigilans
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18 Mar 2011, 2:03 am

Bethie wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
@ LKL

Anyone that claims that a child in the womb can't feel pain is a quack.


Inuyasha, the great pre-natal neurologist.


:lol:


And vocal advocate of kangaroo abortion :(


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Bethie
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18 Mar 2011, 2:07 am

Vigilans wrote:
Bethie wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
@ LKL

Anyone that claims that a child in the womb can't feel pain is a quack.


Inuyasha, the great fetal neurologist.


:lol:


And vocal advocate of kangaroo abortion :(


Well, at least he believes women and kangas deserve an equal amount of reproductive freedom.
Can't be a speciesist. :lol:


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18 Mar 2011, 2:12 am

Inuyasha wrote:
Bethie wrote:
91 wrote:
@ Bethie

There is nothing about having a life that makes a human being a person, rather it is simply having life that makes one a human being.


Most life is actually NON-human.

Although I'm not at all sure how the distinction of "human" or "non-human" is at all relevant in the context in question.


Last I checked women didn't give birth to kangaroos.


OMFG INUYASHA SUPPORTS KANGAROO-HUMAN HYBRIDIZATION!! !


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18 Mar 2011, 2:19 am

First off I would like to clairify that I was not saying that I would choose killing an infant over abortion, I was just making an observation: people seem to be more horrified when the victem loses a larger percentage of their life or is unable to defend themselves. And based on this observation I find it surprising that more people are not horrified by abortion.

Bethie:
Well for me, motives are everything. But as for what "good" can come of it, that a hard question to awnser as, as perviously stated, you and I view good and evil in very different ways. One could say that the good could come from something the child does over the course of their life, but the obvious responce to that is that the child might be bad. But I oppose abortion on ideological grounds, not functional ones.

sentience is a strange thing. I'm not willing to say that an embryo isn't sentient from the moment of conception onwards. there is little chance that it is sapient perhaps, at least when viewed purely in scientific terms, but I'm not prepared to say they are not sentient.

However I am one who believes in the right of the individual, and I do not believe that anyone needs someone else's consent to remain alive once they are already living. I do not mean to ignore the fact that the mother is an individual with rights as well, but since the mother already had many chances to prevent it from coming to that point, and since the child has more to lose, my sympathy rests with the child.

LKL: certainly as vaild a metric as any. But let me ask you this: would you feel as comfortable pulling the plug if that person was going to make a full recovery in nine months?



91
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18 Mar 2011, 2:28 am

Bethie wrote:
91 wrote:
@ Bethie

There is nothing about having a life that makes a human being a person, rather it is simply having life that makes one a human being.


Most life is actually NON-human.

Although I'm not at all sure how the distinction of "human" or "non-human" is relevant in the context in question.


Human beings have inherent value in my view. They are justified simply by their existence. If it is not human life, then what sort of life is it Bethie?


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18 Mar 2011, 3:07 am

Tensu wrote:
LKL: certainly as vaild a metric as any. But let me ask you this: would you feel as comfortable pulling the plug if that person was going to make a full recovery in nine months?

If the non-sentient person in question would be fully independent in 9 months and was not physically attached to another human being, using the other human's body for sustenance and oxygen (as opposed to machines), limiting their movement, making it difficult for them to sleep, making them nauseous, wrecking their joints, etc, then yes: I would feel some qualms about pulling the plug on them.



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18 Mar 2011, 3:10 am

It is 'human life,' but it is not necessarily 'a human life.' A human heart in an ice chest, waiting to be transplanted, is 'human life.' It even has a heartbeat.



Tensu
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18 Mar 2011, 3:13 am

What is the person they where attached to was responsible for putting them in that condition?

LKL wrote:
It is 'human life,' but it is not necessarily 'a human life.' A human heart in an ice chest, waiting to be transplanted, is 'human life.' It even has a heartbeat.


A human heart isn't a lifeform in of itself though. an embryo is.



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18 Mar 2011, 3:35 am

Tensu wrote:
What is the person they where attached to was responsible for putting them in that condition?

If the attachee did not deliberately put them in that condition, the attachee does not deserve that punishment.

Quote:
A human heart isn't a lifeform in of itself though. an embryo is.

a zef is not a lifeform in of itself. It uses someone else's digestive tract, someone else's kidneys, someone else's liver, etc.



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18 Mar 2011, 8:00 am

91 wrote:
Bethie wrote:
91 wrote:
@ Bethie

There is nothing about having a life that makes a human being a person, rather it is simply having life that makes one a human being.


Most life is actually NON-human.

Although I'm not at all sure how the distinction of "human" or "non-human" is relevant in the context in question.


Human beings have inherent value in my view. They are justified simply by their existence. If it is not human life, then what sort of life is it Bethie?


Is it a person?

ruveyn



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18 Mar 2011, 8:04 am

as anyone who studies torah diligently and thoughtfully knows life begins at the first breath.
G'd breathed the live into Adam.
the Bible said, I believe it. that ends it.
:lol:



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18 Mar 2011, 8:31 am

91 wrote:
Human beings have inherent value in my view. They are justified simply by their existence. If it is not human life, then what sort of life is it Bethie?


Just your supposition. There is no hard boundary between life and non-life, or human and non-human. Saying abortion = killing a human is nonsense.



ryan93
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18 Mar 2011, 8:42 am

Just your supposition. There is no hard boundary between life and non-life, or human and non-human. Saying abortion = killing a human is nonsense.[/quote]

I agree with you about abortion not being tantamount to murder, but I always figured the boundary between living and non-living was pretty sharp; anything that maintains a thermodynamic disequilibrium and segregates molecules by energy transformation is alive.


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18 Mar 2011, 12:11 pm

01001011 wrote:
91 wrote:
Human beings have inherent value in my view. They are justified simply by their existence. If it is not human life, then what sort of life is it Bethie?


Just your supposition. There is no hard boundary between life and non-life, or human and non-human. Saying abortion = killing a human is nonsense.


If you have brain activity and a heartbeat in a child whom is adding an enormous amount of brain cells every minute, then yeah they are alive. And since they are genetically human abortion does equal killing a human being.

Human Women to not give birth to Kangaroos.



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18 Mar 2011, 12:14 pm

Inuyasha wrote:
01001011 wrote:
91 wrote:
Human beings have inherent value in my view. They are justified simply by their existence. If it is not human life, then what sort of life is it Bethie?


Just your supposition. There is no hard boundary between life and non-life, or human and non-human. Saying abortion = killing a human is nonsense.


If you have brain activity and a heartbeat in a child whom is adding an enormous amount of brain cells every minute, then yeah they are alive. And since they are genetically human abortion does equal killing a human being.

Human Women to not give birth to Kangaroos.


Leave the god damn kangaroos out of this! What did they ever do to you for you to adopt such a hard-line anti-Roo stance?!


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18 Mar 2011, 12:47 pm

There is one thing I know about both Roos and Inuyasha... That is they do not walk backwards. I can respect that.


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