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Come June 10, would you vote for a leftwing secularist above a radical right-libertarian to be WP's Most Strident Atheist given that radical right-libertarian policies lead to low levels of atheism?
I would vote for the leftwing secularist! 55%  55%  [ 18 ]
No, I would vote for the religion helping, self-hating atheist right-libertarian. 15%  15%  [ 5 ]
None of the above 30%  30%  [ 10 ]
Total votes : 33

NobelCynic
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25 Mar 2011, 5:36 pm

marshall wrote:
AG was a theist back in 2007.

I don't remember ever reading a post of AG's defending theism, however I was new here then and spent more time in GAD than PPR so I might have missed something. I do remember AG explaining that he joined a church as a “college experiment” because most of the girls he knew were religious and he thought it might help him get into their pants. I don't know why that should count against him.

You seem to be against the incumbent but are not nominating or supporting an alternative. Is this a political ploy, hoping someone else will nominate you so you don't have to throw your own hat into the ring?


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25 Mar 2011, 6:16 pm

I think my opposition to theism is very clear, and I *know* that I have done a better job at it recently than most other posters. Even my last campaign was run on the grounds of my actual efforts to oppose Christian theism, the most popular form of theism in the Western world. Such efforts can be noted with this post here: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt127163.html

Even further, my opponent has in the past recognized me as an atheist. Just a month ago, in a private message, he asked for my insight into a matter of divine command metaethics, and I responded, properly, and as I have in the past to 91(M_P's other name), that divine command theory fails, and that even the theists know this: http://dangerousidea.blogspot.com/2009/ ... ivine.html And that even the scriptures they use do not allow for this move to be taken too seriously: http://formerfundy.blogspot.com/2010/06 ... ve-to.html , http://formerfundy.blogspot.com/2009/11 ... ocent.html . (Note: A really really really good source of philosophical arguments against divine command theory is Wes Morriston http://stripe.colorado.edu/~morristo/se ... apers.html )

Finally, any point that my engagement with theism in the past is a sign of a personal failing, I think is misguided. Are we really to say that a person who ENGAGES the opposition is LESS strident than a person who simply does not? The simple and pure reason why a liberal Calvinist group would support me is this: I am actually EFFECTIVE at engaging the idiocies of fundamentalism, which we both oppose, and unlike M_P, or any other candidate, I actually engage theists, including liberal Calvinists, and I do so with gusto, intellectual strength, and real knowledge of the problem that is faced.

Look, I think the decision is clear. I can stand on my record. I can stand on my knowledge. I can stand on not seeking to divide up free-thinkers. Finally, I can stand on the fact that I do exemplify a lot of the virtues of the skeptical community, including independence, skepticism, rationality, and knowledge. I don't think any closet Papist, or alien worshiping Jew can do the same.



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25 Mar 2011, 7:42 pm

Awesomelyglorious wrote:

Even further, my opponent has in the past recognized me as an atheist. Just a month ago, in a private message, he asked for my insight into a matter of divine command metaethics, and I responded, properly, and as I have in the past to 91(M_P's other name), that divine command theory fails, and that even the theists know this: http://dangerousidea.blogspot.com/2009/ ... ivine.html And that even the scriptures they use do not allow for this move to be taken too seriously: http://formerfundy.blogspot.com/2010/06 ... ve-to.html , http://formerfundy.blogspot.com/2009/11 ... ocent.html . (Note: A really really really good source of philosophical arguments against divine command theory is Wes Morriston http://stripe.colorado.edu/~morristo/se ... apers.html )


Well, if AG is going to cross the CRUCIAL LINE of referring to PMs and conversations extraneous to WP, may I also say that he...

A) AG supports eugenics, so that COULD MEAN YOU! And if if *could* mean you then it *almost certainly* means you! *You* could be an atheist and thus are almost certainly an atheist. Therefore, AG supports the eugenic culling off of atheists!

B) AG expressed angst at atheists "attacking people who talk about their church experiences". This shows that he is soft and NOT STRIDENT!! !

C) AG has endorsed liberal Calvinism and sleeps in a bed of cash provided for by affluent liberal CALVINISTS who hate atheism.

Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Finally, any point that my engagement with theism in the past is a sign of a personal failing, I think is misguided. Are we really to say that a person who ENGAGES the opposition is LESS strident than a person who simply does not? The simple and pure reason why a liberal Calvinist group would support me is this: I am actually EFFECTIVE at engaging the idiocies of fundamentalism, which we both oppose, and unlike M_P, or any other candidate, I actually engage theists, including liberal Calvinists, and I do so with gusto, intellectual strength, and real knowledge of the problem that is faced.

Look, I think the decision is clear. I can stand on my record. I can stand on my knowledge. I can stand on not seeking to divide up free-thinkers. Finally, I can stand on the fact that I do exemplify a lot of the virtues of the skeptical community, including independence, skepticism, rationality, and knowledge. I don't think any closet Papist, or alien worshiping Jew can do the same.


Bluster away, you Chirs Hedge sycophant.


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25 Mar 2011, 7:44 pm

I think that your lead is puny and meaningless and instead you should focus on good advertisement.

I suggest: We have booze and lesbians and cookies!"


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25 Mar 2011, 7:48 pm

Orwell wrote:
You know your campaign for liberal atheism over right-libertarian theism is in trouble when you can't even get support from liberal theists. :P


Once again, we see the notorious equivocation of the liberal Calvinist campaign against me. I am referring to theological liberalism not American social welfare liberalism. Nobody in their right mind would regard a radical, Moore hating, centrist like Orwell anywhere near social welfare liberalism.

Nevertheless, I have avoided labelling myself liberal consistently because of the negative associations it has in my mind.


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25 Mar 2011, 8:02 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
Well, if AG is going to cross the CRUCIAL LINE of referring to PMs and conversations extraneous to WP, may I also say that he...

A) AG supports eugenics, so that COULD MEAN YOU! And if if *could* mean you then it *almost certainly* means you! *You* could be an atheist and thus are almost certainly an atheist. Therefore, AG supports the eugenic culling off of atheists!

Are you saying that you AREN'T a transhumanist? If not, then why not? How not? I think it clearly follows from your own philosophy that you would promote human improvement, and human improvement is both robot arms and the perfect pair of genes.

Quote:
B) AG expressed angst at atheists "attacking people who talk about their church experiences". This shows that he is soft and NOT STRIDENT!! !

You mean I support treating people of religion with respect, recognizing that more flies are caught with honey than vinegar? If you want to do this job right, you clearly have to know when to cross the line and when not. You cross the line when the shock will get people to start thinking again. You don't when doing so will cause them to stop. Any atheist who is open will be called "Strident", so the point is being an atheist who is a real challenge to opponents.

Quote:
C) AG has endorsed liberal Calvinism and sleeps in a bed of cash provided for by affluent liberal CALVINISTS who hate atheism.

Right... because that 7th point of Calvinism (This world is the best of all possible worlds: http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-lib ... -calvinist ) Is TOTALLY something I've promoted? Look, I am going to say to Orwell right now, that if he believes his God is sovereign, which is an implication of Calvinism, then this world HAS TO BE THE BEST, but it very very very clearly is not. I've actually spent pages and pages arguing that this world is NOT the best possible world, when God needs it to be while you were using your alias and CLEAR LOGICAL FLAWS to dispute this point. I don't think I have a problem here.

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Bluster away, you Chirs Hedge sycophant.

I think we all know that the reason you haven't disputed any of this is because you cannot.



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25 Mar 2011, 8:10 pm

ryan93 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
I'm guessing by Orwell's numerous posts that he wants to run as well...he could be a top contender for my vote right behind Inuyasha.


I think Orwell is more of an agnostic (or maybe I'm misinformed). I would vote for Inuyasha, but he's a little bit of a fallacious arguer sometimes. You would probably get my vote.

Although, PGD really gets the throne for Strident Atheist :lol:

I'm a Presbyterian (hence MP's references to the "liberal Calvinists"-that would be me). I just find the Strident Atheist group amusing.

And Inuyasha's a creationist.

So who are you guys gonna draft? Skafather, will you run for most strident atheist? Or do we need new blood here? Ryan93?


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26 Mar 2011, 8:03 am

jmnixon95 wrote:
I am an atheist, yet not a frequent poster in this subforum; therefore, I am not completely certain what "Strident Atheists" are. Although I can guess by the name, I would rather have someone explain it to me; does anyone mind? I'm thinking about posting in this subforum more often.

Sorry for my stupidity on the subjects of Strident Atheists.


Its us having a great deal of fun.


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26 Mar 2011, 8:40 am

I intend to vote for a left wing secularist over any other individual,
in every election of any kind
for the rest of my life.


Although it's worth noting that I consider "right-libertarian" to be a giggle-worthy oxymoron.


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26 Mar 2011, 10:21 am

Bethie wrote:
I intend to vote for a left wing secularist over any other individual,
in every election of any kind
for the rest of my life.


Although it's worth noting that I consider "right-libertarian" to be a giggle-worthy oxymoron.

So, if we set up a vote on "Who is the most right-wing?" or "Who is the most fundamentalist?", you'd vote for the left wing secularist over any other individual? I don't honestly know about you, Bethie, but I personally believe that such an attitude has failed in a situation like that. :P

In any case, I would probably have to disagree with you on the oxymoronic qualities of "right-libertarian", although it depends on how you define it and what policies it entailed, I would imagine that you are thinking of some uncommon empirical argument against it, or that you are actually thinking of it in the context of left-libertarianism.(which originally had the title, but weird historical moves in our naming system made the whole matter complicated, long-story short, right-libertarians actually do now own the name "libertarian" in America, meaning that the term "right-libertarian" is really a concession to the left given that name change) However, when it comes down to it, libertarians do seem to want to provide people more choices in both their social and economic lives, they do not have reason to believe their actions would not lead to less choices, even further most other ideologies either have problems working, or very well might sacrifice some choice for a supposed greater good, such as economic choices, or some social choices, and in either case, this is something both the right and left are willing to do(rather than right only picking one sacrifice and left only taking the other) that libertarians are not. I mean, I think that the only group that would rival right-libertarians in a dedication to liberty would be left-libertarians, and I also think that unless left-libertarianism has actually begun to accept some notions of economic theory, that is is intellectually dead(as much as people want to criticize economic theory, it is too easy to make a strawman of it, or to try to cast it off as worthless, when incentives WILL matter). I also don't think that this perception of failure is controversial, as most economists do not think that left-libertarianism is viable at all, whereas they are more accepting of right-libertarianism as a viable intellectual position.



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26 Mar 2011, 10:28 am

Orwell wrote:
ryan93 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
I'm guessing by Orwell's numerous posts that he wants to run as well...he could be a top contender for my vote right behind Inuyasha.


I think Orwell is more of an agnostic (or maybe I'm misinformed). I would vote for Inuyasha, but he's a little bit of a fallacious arguer sometimes. You would probably get my vote.

Although, PGD really gets the throne for Strident Atheist :lol:

I'm a Presbyterian (hence MP's references to the "liberal Calvinists"-that would be me). I just find the Strident Atheist group amusing.

And Inuyasha's a creationist.

So who are you guys gonna draft? Skafather, will you run for most strident atheist? Or do we need new blood here? Ryan93?


I'm not running. I have no desire for any titles...that's something you'd see from organized religion. :P


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26 Mar 2011, 11:29 am

skafather84 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
ryan93 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
I'm guessing by Orwell's numerous posts that he wants to run as well...he could be a top contender for my vote right behind Inuyasha.


I think Orwell is more of an agnostic (or maybe I'm misinformed). I would vote for Inuyasha, but he's a little bit of a fallacious arguer sometimes. You would probably get my vote.

Although, PGD really gets the throne for Strident Atheist :lol:

I'm a Presbyterian (hence MP's references to the "liberal Calvinists"-that would be me). I just find the Strident Atheist group amusing.

And Inuyasha's a creationist.

So who are you guys gonna draft? Skafather, will you run for most strident atheist? Or do we need new blood here? Ryan93?


I'm not running. I have no desire for any titles...that's something you'd see from organized religion. :P

Here we go, strident atheists of PPR! A true leader who is not power-hungry and likely to abuse their role like AG or MP would! Draft skafather84 for Most STRIDENT Atheist!


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26 Mar 2011, 11:32 am

Can a candidate with no ambition really represent strident atheism?

Brought you by the theistic committee that can't remember it's name



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26 Mar 2011, 11:44 am

Orwell wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
ryan93 wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
I'm guessing by Orwell's numerous posts that he wants to run as well...he could be a top contender for my vote right behind Inuyasha.


I think Orwell is more of an agnostic (or maybe I'm misinformed). I would vote for Inuyasha, but he's a little bit of a fallacious arguer sometimes. You would probably get my vote.

Although, PGD really gets the throne for Strident Atheist :lol:

I'm a Presbyterian (hence MP's references to the "liberal Calvinists"-that would be me). I just find the Strident Atheist group amusing.

And Inuyasha's a creationist.

So who are you guys gonna draft? Skafather, will you run for most strident atheist? Or do we need new blood here? Ryan93?


I'm not running. I have no desire for any titles...that's something you'd see from organized religion. :P

Here we go, strident atheists of PPR! A true leader who is not power-hungry and likely to abuse their role like AG or MP would! Draft skafather84 for Most STRIDENT Atheist!


The Strident Atheists are a group that has gathered enough power in PPR that other members have been encouraged not to provoke us, and I think Skafather does the best job of representing us. Personally I don't think he would abuse the power that he had a role in gathering. So I second the motion to draft Skafather84 to run for Most Strident Atheist.

I would put my name in the hat, but nobody knows me well enough for me to do so.


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26 Mar 2011, 11:47 am

ikorack wrote:
Can a candidate with no ambition really represent strident atheism?

Brought you by the theistic committee that can't remember it's name


Well it's not like I've given up on my mind and have acquiesced to the god of the gaps or anything.


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