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Sweetleaf
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27 May 2011, 10:03 pm

Ok why is it that a lot of people seem to think as an american you are obligated to support Isreal? I mean I am fine if people really think they are a good ally and are doing the right thing and all that. I disagree....but others are entitled to their opinions. But what I don't understand is why I can't dislike that particular country without having to worry about being called ignorant, anti-semetic or a jew hater. I mean I do not like that they use violence as a first resort for just about everything........I read an article today about how Isreal declared certain peaceful protests to be illegal and have used lethal force in some instances to deal with this. And I don't side with Palestinians or whatever as they use a lot of violence and such as well and neither side can come to a peace settlement.

But yeah so I do not think the U.S should support Isreal......I don't see how that makes me ignorant or anti-semetic. What are all your veiws on this and do any of you agree with me and face these kinds of accusations as well?



Sand
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27 May 2011, 10:36 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Ok why is it that a lot of people seem to think as an american you are obligated to support Isreal? I mean I am fine if people really think they are a good ally and are doing the right thing and all that. I disagree....but others are entitled to their opinions. But what I don't understand is why I can't dislike that particular country without having to worry about being called ignorant, anti-semetic or a jew hater. I mean I do not like that they use violence as a first resort for just about everything........I read an article today about how Isreal declared certain peaceful protests to be illegal and have used lethal force in some instances to deal with this. And I don't side with Palestinians or whatever as they use a lot of violence and such as well and neither side can come to a peace settlement.

But yeah so I do not think the U.S should support Isreal......I don't see how that makes me ignorant or anti-semetic. What are all your veiws on this and do any of you agree with me and face these kinds of accusations as well?


I am not particularly happy with Israel and I doubt you are ignorant but if you write on the subject you really should learn to spell "Israel" and "anti-Semitic" .



MDD123
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27 May 2011, 11:43 pm

There's a lot of appeal to emotions on whole debate. You hear about rocket attacks, abductions, lynchings, ect.. and for years, I thought the Palestinians as a collective were just troublemakers. Then I started to learn more about the Israeli expansions into Palestinian territory, the resource theft, and other outrages. I mean I've never been there, so I can't really say how things happen there, but if you're in the wrong for questioning Israel's innocence, then you're not the only one. I think the Jewish religion itself teaches its followers to question things, it would be hippocritical to exclude Israel's activity from the questions.



simon_says
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27 May 2011, 11:57 pm

I don't really care if we support them or not. I would hope that we scale back the aid the moment a peace deal is reached. That includes Egypt, which now gets almost as much just to maintain the peace.

The reason we give them so much aid is to keep them strong enough so that they don't have to ask for our help in a conflict. We want a "don't call us, we'll call you" alliance. We were almost dragged into the war in 73 when Israel was in trouble. We didn't want that to happen ever again.



Sand
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28 May 2011, 12:06 am

simon_says wrote:
I don't really care if we support them or not. I would hope that we scale back the aid the moment a peace deal is reached. That includes Egypt, which now gets almost as much just to maintain the peace.

The reason we give them so much aid is to keep them strong enough so that they don't have to ask for our help in a conflict. We want a "don't call us, we'll call you" alliance. We were almost dragged into the war in 73 when Israel was in trouble. We didn't want that to happen ever again.


It's really up to Israel to settle its own problems. If it cannot resolve it's conflicts in a reasonable and peaceful manner that would immensely benefit the whole region then they must suffer the consequences. Their whole psychology is based on the false premise that they are oppressed which is ludicrous considering their wealth and military power. They are behaving extremely badly.



MissConstrue
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28 May 2011, 12:11 am

I've always asked this question myself. Apparently a lot of silly Christians think it's our duty. I'm not sure if I get it though. I remember hearing something about how in the end the Jewish people will restore faith or something like that. Maybe if someone can help me out here.....

Anyway Israel can stand it's own ground. I really don't see any reason what's so ever to support it's state. I wish our country could take care of itself instead of spending so much money overseas and in countries that really have no connection to us. Nothing like a bunch of rich dumb bureaucrats running the show. But what's worse is the poor people who fall for this rubbish like sheep going off a cliff.


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psychohist
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28 May 2011, 12:59 am

I've learned just to ignore charges of antisemitism. The jewish Anti Defamation League has overused the charge to the point it has become meaningless. I just hope real antisemitism doesn't start gaining popularity again, because if it does, the ADL will be in the position of the boy who cried "wolf".



heylelshalem
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28 May 2011, 1:23 am

ISRAEL is an apartheid state. The policies used are pretty much use settlements to choke out palistinians from their land. A lot of the settlers are rather fundamentalist and literally believe in the holy land so are less bemused to do away with the locals. Its a constricting process really. Especially with all the walls they are building and the checkpoints. The only real job a palestinian man can get is to work on a construction site at a settlement.

lsrael--first world country with a potential for resort status.
palestine: a prison state with fourth worlds conditions

do the math.


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Kraichgauer
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28 May 2011, 2:33 am

If we you're going to support Israel, do it for sensible, legitimate reasons. That is, because they are a fellow democracy surrounded by hostile authoritarian states, and not because of any end times bullshit theology, or out of guilt for the way the rest of us in the west had once treated Jews.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



simon_says
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28 May 2011, 2:34 am

Quote:
It's really up to Israel to settle its own problems. If it cannot resolve it's conflicts in a reasonable and peaceful manner that would immensely benefit the whole region then they must suffer the consequences.


They were our cold war client state. We scratched their back, they scratched ours. Its wasn't out of the goodness our hearts.

Whether it still serves a purpose worth several billion a year I don't know. One factor is that they are required to spend a large percentage of military aid on our military gear. It's really a subsidy to our own defense industry.



ruveyn
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28 May 2011, 6:51 am

simon_says wrote:
Quote:
It's really up to Israel to settle its own problems. If it cannot resolve it's conflicts in a reasonable and peaceful manner that would immensely benefit the whole region then they must suffer the consequences.


They were our cold war client state. We scratched their back, they scratched ours. Its wasn't out of the goodness our hearts.

Whether it still serves a purpose worth several billion a year I don't know. One factor is that they are required to spend a large percentage of military aid on our military gear. It's really a subsidy to our own defense industry.


Thank you! I am glad I am not the only one who sees aid to Israel as a krypto subsidy.

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28 May 2011, 10:26 am

As an American I don't feel obligated to support anything outside of US interests.
If we're getting an equitable return on our support then that's fine and I'm for it. Either way I could care less what they do with or to the Palestinians.
Whats with this recent obsession with Israel anyway????
Israel this, Israelis that.
Time for some new material to fight over.



iamnotaparakeet
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28 May 2011, 10:44 am

Raptor wrote:
Whats with this recent obsession with Israel anyway????
Israel this, Israelis that.


President Humpty Dumpstery's demand that Israel return to its 1967 borders.

Raptor wrote:
Time for some new material to fight over.


Fine with me, let there be more talk about the colonization of the solar system and the process of starting a truly spacefaring civilization.



Raptor
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28 May 2011, 11:20 am

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Whats with this recent obsession with Israel anyway????
Israel this, Israelis that.


iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Quote:
President Humpty Dumpstery's demand that Israel return to its 1967 borders.


That would be devastating to Israel. Barack's love of Islam is obviously where this is coming from. To them he is a willing tool of Israeli destruction.

Raptor wrote:
Time for some new material to fight over.



iamnotaparakeet wrote:
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Fine with me, let there be more talk about the colonization of the solar system and the process of starting a truly spacefaring civilization.


I was thinking something more realistic to chew on. To know the mindset of America and to know the challenges of space exploration makes this, for all practical purposes, out of reach.
It would suit me fine if we had more of an interest in space exploration, but...............



simon_says
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28 May 2011, 12:33 pm

Quote:
President Humpty Dumpstery's demand that Israel return to its 1967 borders.


:lol:

That's not the full or exact quote of what he said.