When the riots begin
Compared to the wealthy, the poor appears to be under consuming. But rich people form such a small proportion of any society that their direct activities like how much they consume have little bearing on aggregate. In every economic crisis, it has always been the consumption habits of the masses that pushed the system over the edge. It is what rich people do with their money that matters. To take Greece as an example, wealthy Greeks have shifted tens of billions of Euros out of Greece. Needless to say, the loss of all that money has made a desperate situation impossible.
There is too much nonsense in all your posts to go back and point it all out. But please, at least refrain from making directly contradictory statements within the same paragraph.
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ALL ANIMALS ARE EQUAL
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sartresue
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Stop being so wasteful.
Live within your means.
This topic - which was actually started in mid-2009 but the original thread was deleted by the arrogant and ignorant administrators of the board - is not about doom and gloom but an attempt to discuss reality. Just the other day I was reading the Washington Post and there was an editorial about how positivism has contributed to the deep and serious mistakes that have been made in response to the American Financial Crisis. The banking crisis is really just a symptom of the underlying malaise – chronic overconsumption. By staying positive and stimulating the economy with unbelievable sums of money, the Obama administration actually set the stage for a massive meltdown. They were so blind sighted by their own positive thinking that they refused to acknowledge the structural shifts that had occurred in the economy. They tried to stimulate consumption when overconsumption is the problem.
Waste line topic
I think it was foolish. greedy, spendthrifty and wasteful for the US economy to intertwine with China's.
I am not sure how the US can extricate itself from this dumb mistake.
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Radiant Aspergian
Awe-Tistic Whirlwind
Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory
NOT a believer of Mystic Woo-Woo
The trouble with preaching to pigs is that they will never get it. How much the rich in any society consume is never likely to be a major factor because there is only so much any one person can guzzle. Now by my definition, consumption is a direct activity whereas moving money around is not. Both require a subject or agent but consumption actually utilizes tangible resources whereas transferring money from one bank account to another is simply notional. I know, I know, it is a difficult concept to grasp because most people just do not understand what money really is.
People get angry when told that Western societies are over consuming because any adjustment will mean that some people are going to experience steep declines in their standard of living. America is today going through just such an adjustment and it is painful. There is a lot of citizen journalism chronicling the very apparent rise of homelessness and neighborhoods that have sunk into not so genteel poverty. It would not have been so bad if the American government had sought to manage the decline as opposed to pretending that if they held it together and stayed positive, everything will turn out okay. Well everything is not okay.
There are a lot of poor people in the world who would like to consume more. Think basic healthcare, literacy and having enough to eat so that you do not fall asleep in the day from hunger. All these things are taken for granted in the rich world but are not always available in poorer countries. Consumption in itself will not drive our planet to extinction as there are rich deposits of basic materials and our biosphere is naturally self regenerating. It is when people consume too much and thus deprive others of needed goods and services that many problems arise. But people then ask: why should a poor Indian farmer get to own a cell phone when he does not produce enough to make the trade with phone manufacturers and service providers reasonable? Indeed this is the exact same question I ask myself when I look at how Americans gobble down with such gusto all the things they buy with borrowed money. Why should anyone send goods and provide services to America when all Americans do is give them increasingly worthless IOUs in exchange?
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/wor ... e2056715/#
Honesty about the Greek debt crisis is harder to come by in America. The Canadians can be candid I suspect because they know that with abundant natural resources and strict rules on lending and borrowing, Canada is unlikely to ever be compared with Greece. Even American pundits cannot help but draw parallels between America and Greece these days.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/ju ... nt-clashes
More violence in Greece.
Her 26-year-old daughter, Christina, said the situation in Greece had led her to leave for the UK to study conflict resolution. "I have no job here. There are no prospects," she said.
She cannot live on €900 a month but her daughter can go to the UK to study, of all things, conflict resolution. Are people who study conflict resolution readily employable?
Apparently, what will start the riots is losing Game 7 of the Stanley Cup playoffs...
As for resources, there are plenty of resources. The problem is, our "leaders" are too shortsighted, cowardly, or just plain stupid to get the frak off this planet and go after those resources on the Moon, in the asteroids, in the moons of Jupiter and Saturn, on Mars, being emitted daily from the Sun...
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Sodium is a metal that reacts explosively when exposed to water. Chlorine is a gas that'll kill you dead in moments. Together they make my fries taste good.
Honesty about the Greek debt crisis is harder to come by in America. The Canadians can be candid I suspect because they know that with abundant natural resources and strict rules on lending and borrowing, Canada is unlikely to ever be compared with Greece. Even American pundits cannot help but draw parallels between America and Greece these days.
And people here called me crazy or stupid for bringing up the fact Glenn Beck was predicting problems of a debt crisis and inflation.
It's all just for show. Many Americans have it no better than those in poorer countries. Many Americans lack healthcare, literacy, food (actual food I mean, not Twinkies), and shelter. Sure we hand out diplomas, but that doesn't mean our kids can read. Sure we're fat, but many lack basic nutrition. And yes, 3,000+ sq. ft. homes are commonplace, but still millions of children sleep in cars and tents.
In many ways we are crumbling. It used to bother us to look at 3rd world countries and the suffering endured by others. Now much of it is here and we just drive right past it into our own gated communities. I'm not even that old (just a few grays ) and I've seen town after town just fall to sh*t. It's really quite depressing.
There are plenty of people in America who live a hand to mouth existence and often it is the economically disadvantaged who have had to make all the adjustments to help correct the national imbalances. A middle-class family that loses both incomes is an example of how America’s current account deficit is getting closed at the expense of personal dignity and well-being. It is precisely this unfair distribution of pain that has led to violent riots in Greece. Will we see the same horrifying out pour of rage in America? I suspect that we will except it will be far worse than anything the world has seen because unlike the Greeks or Egyptians, Americans have guns.
Indeed.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Riot+b ... story.html
http://www.google.com/search?q=canada+h ... ockey+riot
So true - Americans are not much better off than those in third world countries like Canada and Greece, where government policies on things like health care have forced the people to resort to physical violence.
I don't know. Maybe mass suffering on a large scale will be the end of the blight of social darwinism and "rugged individualism" so prevelent among the McMansion living middle classes. Idiots don't realize how spoiled we are. I long for the time when families actually had to work together as a community.