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Zeno
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19 Oct 2011, 6:32 pm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/n ... 619110.stm

Check out what Mikey is saying. In many ways Michael Moore is a vanguard of the anti-corporatist and anti-capitalist movement having actually staged and filmed his own solo protests of Wall Street years ago when the American financial crisis first broke out. There are several things to note:

a) He is incoherent
b) He believes that capitalism is evil
c) He states that there is a lot more to come in the OWS movement
d) He has obliquely justified rough tactics

As Moore is an insider who is probably viewed as a hero figure by just about everyone in the incredibly diverse OWS movement, it would be wise to take what he says seriously. If OWS has a leader of spokesman, that would be Michael Moore.



Vexcalibur
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19 Oct 2011, 7:02 pm

So, Michael Moore is wrong = protesters are wrong. Ok.


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19 Oct 2011, 8:52 pm

Zeno wrote:
LKL wrote:
Zeno wrote:
I do not know about other fields, but I can tell you that Jewish and Asian over-representation in finance has nothing to do with their supposed intellects or love of learning. Finance is really not that difficult. In 2008/9 after the collapse of Lehman, thousands of bankers were made redundant. New Jersey actually came up with a program to train ex-bankers to become needed math teachers, but they had to pass a test. After a few months of classes, many of the former finance professionals who signed up did not make the grade. Basically, they were able to succeed as vice-presidents of an investment bank but could not qualify to teach middle school math. So really, it is not an IQ thing. There are other less savory reasons why these groups succeed.

do you have a citation for this story?


It was widely reported in the Tri-State area but mostly as a human interest story that chronicled what former bankers did after their careers had been prematurely cut short. For a while after Lehman’s bankruptcy, journalists were almost gleeful that their banker acquaintances were suddenly in the same precarious financial position as they were. There was story after story of what ex-bankers did with their lives after banking and the outcomes can be quite surprising (think taxi service and ice cream parlour). But by the end of 2009 when it became apparent that many of the former bankers, who had been regarded by their peers as the natural commandos of their generation, were simply unable to recover from their career setback, meaning that they were not as smart or as capable as others had thought them to be, scorn turned to reluctant pity and the flow of stories of how pathetic these people actually are came to an end. You might be able to pull the story I referenced if you have access to Factiva or some other news aggregator.

Your claim = your responsibility.
Sounds like you never had more than an anecdote or two, anyway.



LKL
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19 Oct 2011, 9:01 pm

Zeno wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/9619110.stm

Check out what Mikey is saying. In many ways Michael Moore is a vanguard of the anti-corporatist and anti-capitalist movement having actually staged and filmed his own solo protests of Wall Street years ago when the American financial crisis first broke out. There are several things to note:

a) He is incoherent
b) He believes that capitalism is evil
c) He states that there is a lot more to come in the OWS movement
d) He has obliquely justified rough tactics

As Moore is an insider who is probably viewed as a hero figure by just about everyone in the incredibly diverse OWS movement, it would be wise to take what he says seriously. If OWS has a leader of spokesman, that would be Michael Moore.

a)He is not at all incoherent.
b)Capitalism, as it is currently practiced (which, as you might have noticed, is what he's actually criticising) is objectively evil in that it has evil consequences that would not occurr under other systems.
c)DUH.
d)WTF?



Zeno
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19 Oct 2011, 9:32 pm

http://projects.latimes.com/mexico-drug-war/#/its-a-war

I actually view events down south in Mexico as the most important drivers of America’s future. It is no accident for instance that the Iranians sought out the Zetas (a Mexican drug cartel) to assassinate the Saudi Ambassador to the United States. But my sympathy for Hispanics got the last thread deleted. So this topic is extremely sensitive. Nevertheless, a riot by some White punk nosed kids is going to be quite different from the expressions of discontent of the long oppressed Hispanic migrants.



LKL
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19 Oct 2011, 11:36 pm

Not sure what your point is when you post a link about Drug cartels in a thread about a peaceful civil disobedience movement, and then throw in migrant workers from Mexico to boot. They're pretty disparate groups of people, with very little linking one to the other.



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20 Oct 2011, 12:08 am

This thread is not just about Occupy Wall Street but is really a wider discussion on the breakdown of social order in Western societies that have to make painful adjustments following the American and European financial crises. OWS is simply the latest spark on an already crowded canvas. As it is, numerous mass social disturbances have occurred in Europe that can be traced directly to their financial crisis. Although the riots in Europe are disruptive and annoying, they will pale in comparison to the violent disturbances that will grip America in the coming years. You may not want to acknowledge it, but the Mexican cartels are a major force in American politics. If you think, as the protesters of OWS or adherents to the Illuminati theory like to believe, that money purchases influence and corrupts politics, then the flow of drugs from Mexico into the United States ought to be of great importance to you because there is no other source of funds that is as limitless as it is dark.



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20 Oct 2011, 3:36 am

So you're suggesting that Cartel money might be another source of influence on American politicans? I agree that it's possible - and, actually, that puts a slightly different light on the persistent illegality of pot.



Zeno
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20 Oct 2011, 8:47 am

I am not guessing.



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20 Oct 2011, 9:06 am

Zeno wrote:
I am not guessing.


If you have definite proof you have a legal duty to report it to the Attorney General's Office.

ruveyn



Zeno
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20 Oct 2011, 9:09 pm

The Attorney General knows. You do not suppose it is possible to accumulate trillions of dollars in ill gotten gains and somehow still go unnoticed? :lol:



LKL
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20 Oct 2011, 11:33 pm

Zeno wrote:
The Attorney General knows. You do not suppose it is possible to accumulate trillions of dollars in ill gotten gains and somehow still go unnoticed? :lol:

several big banks have done so; why not cartels?



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21 Oct 2011, 7:42 am

LKL wrote:
Zeno wrote:
The Attorney General knows. You do not suppose it is possible to accumulate trillions of dollars in ill gotten gains and somehow still go unnoticed? :lol:

several big banks have done so; why not cartels?


These banks have not gone unnoticed.

ruveyn



Zeno
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26 Oct 2011, 1:43 am

Told you the Californians would be the first to cause trouble. The police have clashed with the deadbeats in Oakland and from the looks of it, there is more violence to come. Some people are looking to raise hell and force certain issues on the table. For better or for worse, the upheavals of 2011/12 will define America for decades to come.



peebo
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26 Oct 2011, 1:50 am

Zeno wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/9619110.stm

Check out what Mikey is saying. In many ways Michael Moore is a vanguard of the anti-corporatist and anti-capitalist movement having actually staged and filmed his own solo protests of Wall Street years ago when the American financial crisis first broke out. There are several things to note:

a) He is incoherent
b) He believes that capitalism is evil
c) He states that there is a lot more to come in the OWS movement
d) He has obliquely justified rough tactics

As Moore is an insider who is probably viewed as a hero figure by just about everyone in the incredibly diverse OWS movement, it would be wise to take what he says seriously. If OWS has a leader of spokesman, that would be Michael Moore.



given that moore is derided by many within the wider field of "anti-capitalism", your argument here is very weak and ultimately fatally flawed.


as another example, the attendant occupations taking place here in the uk appear to have a strong "zeitgeist movement" contingent, however it would be imprudent to connote from this that the principles and beliefs of the "zeitgest movement" represent those of the wider movement. again, in many quarters they are derided.


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