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marshall
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16 Jun 2011, 10:25 pm

Zeno wrote:
There are plenty of people in America who live a hand to mouth existence and often it is the economically disadvantaged who have had to make all the adjustments to help correct the national imbalances. A middle-class family that loses both incomes is an example of how America’s current account deficit is getting closed at the expense of personal dignity and well-being. It is precisely this unfair distribution of pain that has led to violent riots in Greece. Will we see the same horrifying out pour of rage in America? I suspect that we will except it will be far worse than anything the world has seen because unlike the Greeks or Egyptians, Americans have guns.

I don't know. Maybe mass suffering on a large scale will be the end of the blight of social darwinism and "rugged individualism" :roll: so prevelent among the McMansion living middle classes. Idiots don't realize how spoiled we are. I long for the time when families actually had to work together as a community.



ikorack
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17 Jun 2011, 12:24 am

are you guys having trouble realizing he's a race troll because hes doing it Asian style?



Zeno
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17 Jun 2011, 4:26 am

It says a lot that some people think I am a “race troll”. Like an Asian version of the KKK simply because I dare tell you that economic mismanagement will lead to dire consequences. In fact, for those of you who do not know, the original thread was deleted when the riots in Greece started on the basis that I used racist epithets to pillory racist attitudes in America. Apparently, one cannot use racist terminology to reflect the racism that is such an apparent aspect of American life. I would know; I lived there for a number of years.

Despite fond memories of my stay and enduring affection for the US of A, I will not pretend that economic realities do not exist simply so that some people can continue to stay positive. It is wrong to blame China for America’s woes just like it is wrong for the Greeks to blame the EU for their endless need to borrow. It is seriously misguided to believe that if you just keep the faith, everything will go back to the way it was. A massive structural shift has taken place and American pundits and policy makers still insist that the cyclical turn is just around the corner.

You will see, as some have pointed out already, that evidence of decline will become harder and harder to ignore. Buildings now vacant will start to fall apart, trash piles up in vacant lots, homeless vagrants panhandling at every corner, drug addicts in every alley and that is the nice part of town because the first thing that gets cut is the funds for upkeep. But because of the massive amounts of money that the Obama administration has poured into the American economy, we have not even begun to see, much less adjust, to the new realities. It is a question of time and sooner or later America will have to confront the fact that it simply consumes too much and produces too little. An economic model that is dependent on borrowing from others is simply not sustainable.



Subotai
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17 Jun 2011, 5:21 am

psychohist wrote:
DeaconBlues wrote:
Apparently, what will start the riots is losing Game 7 of the Stanley Cup playoffs...


Indeed.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Riot+b ... story.html
http://www.google.com/search?q=canada+h ... ockey+riot

number5 wrote:
It's all just for show. Many Americans have it no better than those in poorer countries. Many Americans lack healthcare, literacy, food (actual food I mean, not Twinkies), and shelter. Sure we hand out diplomas, but that doesn't mean our kids can read. Sure we're fat, but many lack basic nutrition. And yes, 3,000+ sq. ft. homes are commonplace, but still millions of children sleep in cars and tents.

So true - Americans are not much better off than those in third world countries like Canada and Greece, where government policies on things like health care have forced the people to resort to physical violence.


Oh please. Canada a 3rd world country? :lol:



Zeno
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YippySkippy
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30 Jun 2011, 9:32 am

I agree with Zeno's argument, and I also agree he is racist.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive.



ruveyn
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30 Jun 2011, 3:06 pm

marshall wrote:
I don't know. Maybe mass suffering on a large scale will be the end of the blight of social darwinism and "rugged individualism" :roll: so prevelent among the McMansion living middle classes. Idiots don't realize how spoiled we are. I long for the time when families actually had to work together as a community.


Are you advocating enforced association?

If a person wants to cut himself off from the community he is free to do so and there is no legal impediment to doing so. As long as he/she does not violate the law, all is well.

ruveyn



AceOfSpades
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30 Jun 2011, 3:11 pm

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:
I don't know. Maybe mass suffering on a large scale will be the end of the blight of social darwinism and "rugged individualism" :roll: so prevelent among the McMansion living middle classes. Idiots don't realize how spoiled we are. I long for the time when families actually had to work together as a community.


Are you advocating enforced association?

If a person wants to cut himself off from the community he is free to do so and there is no legal impediment to doing so. As long as he/she does not violate the law, all is well.

ruveyn
Yeah I'd much rather not be a slave to a village. Modern society gives us the luxury of free association.



RedHanrahan
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30 Jun 2011, 5:32 pm

Semi interesting thread.

I notice the usual defence of the ignorant in 'he's a troll' or 'he's a racist/anti-american' are trotted out, so much easier than looking a little deeper at things :roll:

I would query both, the arguments seem to be genuine and the fact that the finger in this instance points at the predominantly 'white' west is incidental, an accident of demographics and not really indicative of any racism which if it is there was not overt enough for me to catch.

As to the general issue of consumption/production, waste, distribution and the shell game that is abstract ecconomics?

Well any operation that constantly robs one source to pay off the previous one will inevitably run out of sources as anyone who has watched 'airplane' schemes will know. Any system that is always seeking 'cheapest source' because it is fueled by competition and the greed ethos rather than co-operatively supplying needs has a limited life as the unfolding of the post Bretton Woods era is evidencing.

I peronally am inclined to agree with Marshall, but I am inherently something of a political luddite, a leveller at heart and am quite prepared to embrace the collapse and work with my neighbours in spite of my generally asocial disposition.

The idyll of a small cottage on the edge of a community and days spent tilling a communally administered area of land... the cycle of seasons... the smell of woodsmoke as the sun sets... Ahhh.. it's enough to set me all aswoon... :oops:

Of course for several generations my fellows have been conditioned to act as self interested fools and may just murder me/eachother and trash the place before the few survivors realise exactly how the game gets played but I can live or die by either :wink:

peace j


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Zeno
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30 Jun 2011, 7:14 pm

National Geographic and Discovery Channel have been putting out more and more of these “end of days” themed programs. The one on preppers is interesting because prepping for disaster is a growing phenomenon in the United States. It began with backyard chickens and now people are buying wheat and rice by the truckload. Before the never ending riots in Greece, the notion of social collapse in a Western democracy would have been scoffed at. Now it seems inevitable that an electoral process, where politicians basically buy the vote by promising to give what they should not or lower taxes and not take what they should, leads to an unsustainable rise in public indenture that finally results in financial catastrophe and the demise of the state.

It may seem crazy to hoard food and ammunition, but when a scenario where law and order breaks down is played out in a country like America where guns abound, some preparedness does actually make sense. At the very least you should have a bug out kit ready and know where you will head to in the event of an emergency because you do not want to have to think and plan under emergency conditions. In the original thread, I started by advocating that people buy a gun and recommended the AK-47. That recommendation still stands. Unlike the AR-15 or other handguns, the AK-47 requires minimal maintenance. You would not have to strip and oil the AK-47 every week like you would have to for other guns.



AceOfSpades
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30 Jun 2011, 7:47 pm

Zeno wrote:
National Geographic and Discovery Channel have been putting out more and more of these “end of days” themed programs. The one on preppers is interesting because prepping for disaster is a growing phenomenon in the United States. It began with backyard chickens and now people are buying wheat and rice by the truckload. Before the never ending riots in Greece, the notion of social collapse in a Western democracy would have been scoffed at. Now it seems inevitable that an electoral process, where politicians basically buy the vote by promising to give what they should not or lower taxes and not take what they should, leads to an unsustainable rise in public indenture that finally results in financial catastrophe and the demise of the state.

It may seem crazy to hoard food and ammunition, but when a scenario where law and order breaks down is played out in a country like America where guns abound, some preparedness does actually make sense. At the very least you should have a bug out kit ready and know where you will head to in the event of an emergency because you do not want to have to think and plan under emergency conditions. In the original thread, I started by advocating that people buy a gun and recommended the AK-47. That recommendation still stands. Unlike the AR-15 or other handguns, the AK-47 requires minimal maintenance. You would not have to strip and oil the AK-47 every week like you would have to for other guns.
I would rather have a TAR-21. Or maybe an M14 if I need more firepower. SHTF situations aren't as demanding of maintenance than if you were on the battlefield crawling in sand and laying down tons of suppressing fire, so if it was between an AK-47 and an AR-15 I'd prefer having an AR-15. I'm no expert on survivalism so I could be underestimating it and overlooking some possible scenarios but so far it seems that the battlefield would be much more demanding.



Zeno
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30 Jun 2011, 10:12 pm

The AK-47 packs quite a punch. There are many other weapons that have longer range and accuracy, but most of them, especially the American designed ones, require a lot of maintenance to keep them in good working order. AK-47s have been proven to withstand an incredible amount of abuse so it is something that you can buy and forget until such time when you might need it. You cannot really hide or disguise an AK-47 so the gun is not very popular with the gangster crowd and since it is not as powerful as say the M16 the drug cartels tend to also give it a miss. You might say that ownership of an AK-47 is legitimate in this sense.



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30 Jun 2011, 11:17 pm

Well considering everything seems to point towards sh*t hitting the fan sometime fairly soon.......I think sh*t is going to hit the fan pretty quick. this will probably sound insane but this coming presidential election is a joke, an absolute joke that I cannot belive anyone could possibly fall for. Many are denying the reality that the world is running out of enough resources to sustain the worlds population.....we all know its there but how many actually think about it, its threatening to think about so not very many. 1% of the population owns most of the wealth, and they are screwing most of us over to keep it that way. Oh and then there is the war on drugs, I wont go into that here but lets just say that ties in with so much corruption so it is fairly significant. So should riots take place I don't think I will be opposed to it.



Zeno
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01 Jul 2011, 7:01 am

It is the idea of a world controlled by a plutocracy that is perhaps the most corrosive virus spreading through the American psyche. Just like the Greeks have their ‘troika’, vague ideas like an Illuminati conspiracy or the Federal Reserve as an agent of corruption are gaining currency as some Americans adjust to their new found poverty.

There are many people who feel that the banking bailout was wrong. It is a commonly held sentiment that the ‘banksters’ who helped usher in the destructive financial bubbles have gotten away with serious transgressions while the little guy was made to pay the price. Like the Greeks, Americans do not seem to understand that it was they who benefited enormously from the inflow of funds which the American financial community worked hard to attract. And it was because the country as a whole benefited (for a while at least) that the bankers were rewarded for their labors. But if you are a 40 year old who has been out of work for 3 years, the fact that the bankers have held on their plum positions while you cannot even get a job flipping burgers is going to seem like an excruciating injustice. When people feel like they have nothing to lose, baser instincts set in. If they get nothing then nobody gets anything and thus the riots begin.



ruveyn
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01 Jul 2011, 10:29 am

Sweetleaf wrote:
Well considering everything seems to point towards sh*t hitting the fan sometime fairly soon.......I think sh*t is going to hit the fan pretty quick. this will probably sound insane but this coming presidential election is a joke, an absolute joke that I cannot belive anyone could possibly fall for. Many are denying the reality that the world is running out of enough resources to sustain the worlds population.....we all know its there but how many actually think about it, its threatening to think about so not very many. 1% of the population owns most of the wealth, and they are screwing most of us over to keep it that way. Oh and then there is the war on drugs, I wont go into that here but lets just say that ties in with so much corruption so it is fairly significant. So should riots take place I don't think I will be opposed to it.


It is the Great Unwashed that gives consent to this madness in the democracies.

ruveyn