Case for Obama birth certificate forgery growing....

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Maybe so.

Dox-
Really? Are you seriously suggesting that there are birthers who aren't motivated by - if not racism - then by blind hatred of the President?

I don't think Obama's detractors are any more hard on him than any other president. They said awful things about Bush, they said awful things about Clinton, they've been saying awful things the president since the beginning. I don't think there are very many people that hate Obama that would like him if he were 100% white.

But never once were any of the other presidents ever accused of not being real Americans. And no one can tell me there isn't a racial element to all this. If they simply attacked Obama regarding his political positions, that would be a very different story.

I apologize. I misunderstood the debate completely. I thought they were giving Obama such a hard time because he's half white. My bad.

Obama is the only one that it's been a question about because of his weirdness about releasing his birth certificate and the fact that his father was Kenyan. Most people know that in order to be president you have to be a "natural born citizen" so I don't think it's a very big leap for people that dislike the president for any amount of reasons already to want to believe that he isn't eligible to hold the office he does. There isn't anything necessarily racist about believing Obama is Kenyan-born, if his father was German or Russian you'd probably hear the same conspiracies. I don't think it's racially motivated so much as it is partisans latching onto anything to discredit the other side. People believed all types of stuff about George Bush and Bill/Hilary Clinton, worse things than being born in Kenya. As I said, I seriously doubt there are many people out there that hate Obama that would like him if he were 100% black.

Last edited by Jacoby on 07 Jan 2014, 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

I sincerely doubt this would be an issue if Obama was white. And the fact of the matter is, his mother is an American citizen, which means he is too. So unless you want to try to claim that his mother isn't really his mother, birthers don't have a leg to stand on.

I doubt we'll have another 'birther' conspiracy in the future because of this one but lets say Obama didn't exist and Ted Cruz was elected president, you would probably hear plenty from other side question his eligibility to be president. I don't think Democrats hate Canadian born Cubans, they just hate Republicans. That's basically what this all boils down to in my opinion.

I could say what's good for the goose is good for the gander, but I am willing to concede that Cruz's mother is an American, therefore he is. No, his heartless political stance is more than enough for Democrats to attack.

I don't think people are questioning whether or not Obama is a "real American" more so than questioning whether or not he is eligible to hold the office of president. The popular understanding of "natural born citizen" to a lot of people is being born in the United States so if he were born Kenya he wouldn't be eligible to president. This is incorrect, a natural born citizen is an anyone that is entitled to American citizenship at birth and being born in the United States(regardless of your parent's nationality) is just one way of being considered one.

FWIW, the natural born citizen wikipedia page lists presidential candidates whose eligibility was questioned and it starts with Chester A. Arthur who was rumored to be born in Canada so Obama isn't the first.0

Have you forgotten the Clinton years? People accused him of having people killed, of being involved in some sort of drug trafficking scheme when he was the governor of Arkansas, of various financial scams, to say nothing of the handful of actual rape allegations.

W? Do I need to go into what people said about W, or do you remember saying them yourself?

It's all partisanship, latching onto any perceived weakness that you think you can harm the other side with, there's nothing really personal about it, it's just how we play politics in this country. Do you think the Republicans really cared about Clinton's blowjobs, or do you think they just wanted a shot at Clinton and took the one they were given? It's not new either, Thomas Jefferson rather infamously accused John Adams of being a hermaphrodite, amongst other things, during a campaign. Do you think he did it because he had some kind of grudge against hermaphrodites, or because he saw some votes in it? Same with your birthers, it's just a partisan smear tailored to this specific president, nothing more.

I sincerely doubt anyone really believed Adams was a hermaphrodite. And sure, the BS hurled at Clinton and Bush was just that - BS. But I don't recall a time when a President's ethnicity was held against him like it is with Obama. And yes, every President gets savaged by his critics (and I admit, I haven't been above that myself), but just because it's been done in the past doesn't mean that it's right, or that it should be ignored. Attack a president's politics, but such ugly personal and ethnic attacks are something none of us should tolerate. If Ted Cruz ever gets to be President (God help us), I will doubtlessly attack his political ideals and his execution of office, but I will never tolerate any attack on his Cuban background - thus I swear!

What about his Canadian background?

T-Word!

I never had an issue with Obama being dark skinned. He has a multitude of character flaws that alone made him unfit to hold the office. That's before you confront his utter lack of real world experience to show his ability to perform the role he sought or that every thing that came from his lips was a lie to trick the masses into voting for him.

I had similar issues with G. W. Bush (military deserter....only never prosecuted because his daddy [who was former CIA] pulled some strings to clean that mess up so he could go into politics.

I had similar issues with Clinton (draft dodger, gloried his drug use, was renowned to be corrupt and lacking in any moral character or real leadership ability as governor of Arkansas).

Pretty much since Regan, we've had presidents who got into office by being the "lesser of the two evils."

H. W. Bush....rode in on the coat tails of Regan...and Dukakis ran a lame campaign at best.

Clinton....rode in on "it's the economy, stupid," "character isn't important," and H. Ross Perot who got the masses riled up on "reinventing Washington" and then dropped out of the race...leaving Clinton and Bush clamoring for his supporters...most of which found Clinton more believable when he picked up Perot's campaign slogans.

G. W. Bush....rode in on the anger of Americans (both conservatives and many liberals) over the scandal-riddled Clinton administration. As lackluster as Gore's campaign was, many do attribute the taint of Clinton's eight years as why Gore didn't easily win the presidency. Absent that taint, his eight years as VP would have overshadowed any lack in his personality.

Obama....rode in on a wave of resentment over what Bush/Cheney did for eight years. Didn't help that the RNC ran McCain...who conservatives found repugnant because he was a Bush "yes man" up until he needed to run for office. Of all the real leaders in the conservative ranks, McCain was GIVEN the nomination. It's still an oddity that Obama got the DNC nomination over Hillary Clinton...who clearly was more suited for it, but that's a topic for another day.

Frankly, even Regan never really wanted to be president. He was pressured to put his hat into the ring by his peer because "America needed him."

Our leaders are indeed selected for us. Again and again I've seen this pattern, and my uncle told me this was so back when I was a teenager. I thought he was crazy, but years of being involved in politics and working campaigns has convinced me that indeed we don't really pick our leaders in the USA...we are given the illusion of choice. No matter who wins, the one left standing will serve the will of those who drive the political machine more than the people who cast their ballots.