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Philologos
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21 Jun 2011, 4:02 pm

Some will know him only by reputation if at all, fine, but I would love to hear from thpose who have experienced him in whatever medium.
It always amazes me when people quote him positively, or claim to have been inspired. Yes I know it takes all types and anything is possible, but it shocks me.

Sagan as astronomer I know nothing about. I have not read his stuff, I have not asked astronomers about him, I should know astronomers? But Sagan the "science popularizer and science communicator" - him I know, and I know full well that I like him no more than the rhymester liked Dr. Fell or Martial [ah, Martial, wit for the ages, why doesn't HE post here] liked his associate.

Why not:

He is just too unhousebroken puppy EAGER. Enthusiastic, you know? Jumping up and down, wagging his tail, panting and yipping incessantly, "The Cosmows, the Cosmows, the Cosmows" [and now nearly everybody and absolutely everybody involved with the media SAYS "cosmows"!].

A bit of refined enthusiasm talking about a new and interesting concept is fine. But anybody older than 6 yrs who bleats "Ooh, the Cosmos!" or "Ooh, Picasso" - even pronouncing correctly - is one of THEM - and I cannot be comfortable around them.

A bit more info, a bit less awe, Carl - if it is really awe inspiring, we don't need cheerleaders.



iamnotaparakeet
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21 Jun 2011, 4:10 pm

Haven't seen much of Carl Sagan's work, except for excerpts of him talking about the languages of whales and how people are made of "starstuff".



John_Browning
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21 Jun 2011, 4:20 pm

I liked "Contact", but he was an alarmist environmental activist who made some very audacious (and now soundly debunked) claims.


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naturalplastic
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21 Jun 2011, 5:24 pm

Was alive in the seventies and saw his original "Cosmos" series on TV.
Easy to make fun of his mannerisms, but I dont remember anything truly dislikeable about him.
Kind of geek's geek. Whats not to like?
experienced him books, a Q and A column in the paper, and on Johnny Carson, as well.



LKL
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21 Jun 2011, 5:37 pm

I absolutely adore Carl Sagan. I first learned his name by using Comet as a source for a grade school report on comets, and later started reading his more philosophical works like Pale Blue Dot and The Demon-Haunted World. I was less thrilled with his movies (I didn't get exposed to 'Cosmos' until I was too far along in my education for it to be revelatory, but I think I would have liked it as a kid), but as a writer on the philosophy and beauty of science he is unparalleled. Neil DeGrasse Tyson is perhaps the closest we have to his successor today.



Sand
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21 Jun 2011, 6:07 pm

Philologos wrote:
Some will know him only by reputation if at all, fine, but I would love to hear from thpose who have experienced him in whatever medium.
It always amazes me when people quote him positively, or claim to have been inspired. Yes I know it takes all types and anything is possible, but it shocks me.

Sagan as astronomer I know nothing about. I have not read his stuff, I have not asked astronomers about him, I should know astronomers? But Sagan the "science popularizer and science communicator" - him I know, and I know full well that I like him no more than the rhymester liked Dr. Fell or Martial [ah, Martial, wit for the ages, why doesn't HE post here] liked his associate.

Why not:

He is just too unhousebroken puppy EAGER. Enthusiastic, you know? Jumping up and down, wagging his tail, panting and yipping incessantly, "The Cosmows, the Cosmows, the Cosmows" [and now nearly everybody and absolutely everybody involved with the media SAYS "cosmows"!].

A bit of refined enthusiasm talking about a new and interesting concept is fine. But anybody older than 6 yrs who bleats "Ooh, the Cosmos!" or "Ooh, Picasso" - even pronouncing correctly - is one of THEM - and I cannot be comfortable around them.

A bit more info, a bit less awe, Carl - if it is really awe inspiring, we don't need cheerleaders.



To not be in awe of the immensity and grandeur of the universe in all its wonder and splendor and extraordinary mystery openly demonstrates a monstrous ignorance of being an insignificant component in a vast and hugely intriguing environment. Sagan spoke openly of this wonder because he knew so much of it. To be arrogant about one's ignorance is a sign of total hubris.



iamnotaparakeet
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21 Jun 2011, 6:28 pm

John_Browning wrote:
I liked "Contact", but he was an alarmist environmental activist who made some very audacious (and now soundly debunked) claims.


He made the movie Contact? So the constant chanting of "the universe is so big, so it would be wasteful for it to be uninhabited", which doesn't follow very well for planets like Venus and Jupiter, was due to Carl Sagan?



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21 Jun 2011, 6:30 pm

At least he's not Brian Cox.


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Sand
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21 Jun 2011, 6:39 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
I liked "Contact", but he was an alarmist environmental activist who made some very audacious (and now soundly debunked) claims.


He made the movie Contact? So the constant chanting of "the universe is so big, so it would be wasteful for it to be uninhabited", which doesn't follow very well for planets like Venus and Jupiter, was due to Carl Sagan?


Habitation is not necessarily human.



iamnotaparakeet
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21 Jun 2011, 6:46 pm

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
I liked "Contact", but he was an alarmist environmental activist who made some very audacious (and now soundly debunked) claims.


He made the movie Contact? So the constant chanting of "the universe is so big, so it would be wasteful for it to be uninhabited", which doesn't follow very well for planets like Venus and Jupiter, was due to Carl Sagan?


Habitation is not necessarily human.


Nor would it be of any life that we know of either, but only that which we can imagine until anything else is found.



Sand
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21 Jun 2011, 6:54 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
I liked "Contact", but he was an alarmist environmental activist who made some very audacious (and now soundly debunked) claims.


He made the movie Contact? So the constant chanting of "the universe is so big, so it would be wasteful for it to be uninhabited", which doesn't follow very well for planets like Venus and Jupiter, was due to Carl Sagan?


Habitation is not necessarily human.


Nor would it be of any life that we know of either, but only that which we can imagine until anything else is found.


It's quite obvious that the imaginative capacities of many humans is quite limited.



iamnotaparakeet
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21 Jun 2011, 7:31 pm

Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Sand wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
John_Browning wrote:
I liked "Contact", but he was an alarmist environmental activist who made some very audacious (and now soundly debunked) claims.


He made the movie Contact? So the constant chanting of "the universe is so big, so it would be wasteful for it to be uninhabited", which doesn't follow very well for planets like Venus and Jupiter, was due to Carl Sagan?


Habitation is not necessarily human.


Nor would it be of any life that we know of either, but only that which we can imagine until anything else is found.


It's quite obvious that the imaginative capacities of many humans is quite limited.


As is the capacity of hypocrisy for those who would chide others as "living in fantasy" when considering the very real possibility of interplanetary colonization and yet call the same person "unimaginative" concerning imaginary aliens. If aliens exist, then fine that would be interesting to meet them and hear of their history, but merely imagining is not the same in the least.



Philologos
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21 Jun 2011, 7:58 pm

dionysian wrote:
At least he's not Brian Cox.


Never heard on him - took a quick bio scan - I suspect I might find him more annoying - all Sagan really did to me was exclaim Wow Picasso [or Rembrandt] in an innocent way and go Caaahsmows.



Philologos
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21 Jun 2011, 8:03 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:

As is the capacity of hypocrisy for those who would chide others as "living in fantasy" when considering the very real possibility of interplanetary colonization and yet call the same person "unimaginative" concerning imaginary aliens. If aliens exist, then fine that would be interesting to meet them and hear of their history, but merely imagining is not the same in the least.


Ah, mon cher psittacoid, you must not expect consistency from small-minded hobgoblins. This is one who accuses me of urging him to leave the forum and urges me to leave the forum; one who disses my Anglic communication and writes - as he writes.

He knows one thing - every human is an idiot.



JakobVirgil
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21 Jun 2011, 8:12 pm

I did not read read the entire conversation but has anyone brought up that Carl smoked epic amounts of cannabis?
<<link to essay>>


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