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Philologos
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01 Jul 2011, 7:02 pm

How much am I required to assimilate?

Up to a point I try to pass - not all that successfully.



tangomike
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01 Jul 2011, 7:11 pm

Philologos wrote:
How much am I required to assimilate?

Up to a point I try to pass - not all that successfully.


You should learn the language of the country you are in and learn the social customs and norms so that you can act accordingly. thats it.

If I moved to Japan with intent to live there, I would make every effort to learn Japanese and learn the complex Japanese social norms instead of hanging onto my American identity. In Japan, there are quite a few instances of white people who moved there and have essentially 'become' Japanese inside and out. They are tall, blonde, blue eyed people who speak perfect Japanese, read the Japanese papers, watch Japanese tv, bow to others instinctively and visit shinto/buddhist shirines for cultural purposes....ive also seen some black people 'become' Japanese.



Philologos
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01 Jul 2011, 7:46 pm

tangomike wrote:
Philologos wrote:
How much am I required to assimilate?

Up to a point I try to pass - not all that successfully.


You should learn the language of the country you are in and learn the social customs and norms so that you can act accordingly. thats it.
.


That is the thing. I am an English-speaking American [central East coast] raised in AngloAmerican academia.

I can shop, I can present a professional paper, I can even talk with a few people like me - but between academia and ennea-5ishness and a touch of AS I cannot perfectly speak or understand the language of the dominant tribe even in the University, nor conform to their norms.

At least when I have lived in other countries I have been granted some grace - they expect less of an obvious foreigner.



tangomike
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01 Jul 2011, 8:02 pm

Philologos wrote:
tangomike wrote:
Philologos wrote:
How much am I required to assimilate?

Up to a point I try to pass - not all that successfully.


You should learn the language of the country you are in and learn the social customs and norms so that you can act accordingly. thats it.
.


That is the thing. I am an English-speaking American [central East coast] raised in AngloAmerican academia.

I can shop, I can present a professional paper, I can even talk with a few people like me - but between academia and ennea-5ishness and a touch of AS I cannot perfectly speak or understand the language of the dominant tribe even in the University, nor conform to their norms.

At least when I have lived in other countries I have been granted some grace - they expect less of an obvious foreigner.

sorry to hear that, how old are you? Im 21 and i felt like that up till the time i was 16 or so. Now I've learned American society just as somebody would learn a new language and I immerse myself in it (im in college) I fit in well with my peers and my age group now, although a lot of it is just acting even tho id prefer to just stay silent and not speak unless necessary. The more i practice these social norms, the more I start doing it automatically without thinking. I think socializing is just like any other skill. if you practice it a lot you will become good at it,



Philologos
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01 Jul 2011, 8:16 pm

Let's just say multiply 21 x 3 and you will not have reached me.

Most of my life has been taken up finding smaller and smaller social circles where I come closer to fitting in. Time after time, people see through my imitations of the norm and I wind up marginalized.

BUT - step by step I have found and assembled the Inner Circle, people with who I really do resonate. Fortunately unlike my sister-in-law I do not require a lot of social activity, so I get on not badly as an expat in my homeland.



ruennsheng
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01 Jul 2011, 9:41 pm

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I am not an Asian immigrant, I am American of Asian decent and I think immigrants should assimilate into whatever culture they moved into. Moving to a country means you are moving with intent to join that nation. If you lvie there btu do not consider it to be YOUR country, it kind of defeats the purpose to moving there at all.....speaking your native language and culture is all well and good but if you do not learn to assimiliate it only puts up walls between u and your neighbors and is counter productive. I understand the desire to preserve the history and identity but personally I think moving to a new country requires you to shed your old identity and take on the identity of whatever county you are moving too. that is the price you must pay for better economical status and living condition...or whatever compelled you to move in the first place.


Oh, thank you for your opinions. it's quite assuring to me.


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CrinklyCrustacean
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01 Jul 2011, 11:34 pm

tangomike wrote:
I see actual Asian people here in college and I dislike them because they all stick together and do not branch out to whites and other Americans who are not white. they go around speaking Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Farsi and Arab and its very hard to even try to start a conversation with them because they are speaking in their own lanaguges amonst each other. I know fora fact that they have considerable English skills because otherwise they couldnt study abroad in America in the 1st place, but they choose not to.

Yes. This happened at the university I went to in England, except they were Chinese Hong Kongers. They would disappear somewhere during breaktimes and lunch and never talked to us unless they had to. They seemed to studiously avoid making any effort to at least get to know anybody else in their classes who wasn't Cantonese. I can understand their motivations: English wasn't their first language and at least one of them felt worried about speaking English with us. However, it seemed to me to be a missed opportunity on their part to get to know different people with different outlooks on life. Perhaps it wouldn't have bothered me so much if I wasn't naturally inclusive of others, and I did get to know them a bit eventually, but it was a bit of a struggle.

In short, I don't have a problem with immigrants preserving their own culture (as long as they don't break the law of the host country) however, I think they should make the effort to intergrate with the host society.



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02 Jul 2011, 2:32 pm

Philologos wrote:
How much am I required to assimilate?

Up to a point I try to pass - not all that successfully.


Honestly I am not even sure what a member of american society is supposed to look or act like or whatever and I was born here. I say its important to know the language of where you live and some of the most common social norms but there is no need to identify with the country you live in if thats not something that idientifies you. That is my opinion at least.....I mean if I visited another country I the first thing I would say about myself is not that I am american I would probably say something about my intrests as those are more important to me then the nation I was born in.



codarac
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02 Jul 2011, 5:27 pm

If millions of Europeans were immigrating to Pakistan, Japan, Korea, Malaysia do you think the host populations there would debate over whether it was better for them that the Europeans either (1) band together and take over neighbourhoods and cities gradually or (2) "assimilate" and gradually miscegenate the host populations out of existence? Or would they instead recgonise a racial invasion when they saw one and consider it better for them if the Europeans returned to Europe?

The fact that such a thing is not happening in Asian countries demonstrates that open borders are not an inevitable feature of the modern world, and that people who champion open borders for Western nations are not furthering the cause of "equality" as they believe (or claim to believe).



ruennsheng
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03 Jul 2011, 1:03 am

Codarac, I don't think the people in Malaysia even accept 'fellow Asians' like the Chinese. It is precisely because of a racial riot involving my race (Chinese) in Malaysia that... well, forced my very own mother to move to Singapore.

The Chinese really tried to assimilate, but because of their comparatively fairer skins, they are attacked for what they are. It does not help more when the Chinese dominated the Malaysian economy - very much like 90% of the country's economy.

And this is the troubles of Chinese Malaysians and Chinese Indonesians. Unlike their counterparts in Thailand (where 2 Chinese-descent Thais are battling for PM), Chinese are forever under-represented in politics, even with their economic clout.

I fear that Chinese in developed countries will face the same predicament.

I have to literally live in fear, if societal conditions in my region is beyond control.


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Last edited by ruennsheng on 03 Jul 2011, 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

codarac
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03 Jul 2011, 6:00 am

ruennsheng, I am sorry to hear that.
It seems to me that such friction is difficult to avoid in ethnically diverse societies.
We have had race riots in the UK. I don't think they have ever involved the Chinese (as a group) though.



Last edited by codarac on 03 Jul 2011, 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

ruennsheng
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03 Jul 2011, 8:58 am

And the Chinese Malaysians/Indonesians can't really adapt to Chinese culture, with our assimilation to their cultures.


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Weirdlord
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29 Jul 2012, 8:39 pm

Assimilation eh? Well it's natural for immigrants to not entirely assimilate and keep their cultural identities. This is what makes America the melting pot.

How to phrase this. I guess part of the reasons Asians don't assimilate so well is the cultural differences and personal opinion.

Some Asian immigrants have a superiority thing where they believe that their culture is number one. This can happen for any race, but I've noticed it more for Chinese and Indian people.

Some Asians just plain don't like white people or don't get along with others. I know some people that personally think that white people are obsessed with bullying the weak and still remember the history. The oppression that began with Imperialism.

Some Asians have a hard time understanding the different cultures or Americans misunderstand them due to stereotypes. Remember they/we are a minority and I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to talk to some ignorant bigot who goes on about how Chinese people eat dogs. Or like the "Tiger Mom" case. Not all Chinese moms are like that; but people had to go ballistic and some somehow began the ridiculous notion that all Chinese moms are "Tiger Moms." And to be quite honest that method of parenting can work, depending on some circumstances; though I would definitely not want to go through it, nor will I ever do that to my children.

I don't think this message was very coherent so far, but oh well. I'm not in the mood to scrutinize my response for hours on end.

I think the key to all this is communication. Americans don't understand foreigners so well and vice versa. Also, foreigners are far more comfortable speaking their native language. If you had the option of moving to a foreign place, I think it would be comforting to know someone who speaks English in the local vicinity. In addition, the knowledge that you know that you are different. A minority whose rights can be easily abused and readily exposed to racism. So they congregate and band together, so they don't get stepped on like ants.

My opinion on this matter is that there is no need to actively assimilate; communication and understanding is the key. We have to look past the stereotypes and race; we just need to see each other as people.



The_Walrus
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30 Jul 2012, 8:04 am

Studies show that immigrants who "assimilate" are often happier and less likely to commit crime. Consequently I think it is probably in the best interests of immigrants if they try to assimilate to a degree. They can still celebrate their culture, watch films or eat food from their country or practice a religion from their country of origin, but from day to day they should aim to be part of the local community.