If a girl is raped and pregnant, should she keep the baby?

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Still a false equivalency, in the case of someone temporarily needing an organ, there is something known as life support where a machine can substitute as an organ until a replacement can be found from an organ donor.

Unless you mean to tell me there are working artificial wombs where a child can be put in, that option is not available.

Furthermore, in the advent where I am killed from an accident or something, I actually happen to be an organ donor.

It's not that, it is just that the religious right refuses to provide free prenatal care for rape victims.

Plizz, mister, to telling me:

What country - or is it what state - or what city - where this "religious right" is in control? Or if this religious right - which I am not finding in phone book - a charitable organization and not a government?

Ouch a stage 4! That was one of my biggest fears. I guess I got off easy with a stage 3, although the doctor stitched me up without any anesthesia. Slightly less painful than the actual delivery though.

The most lasting effects came from my c-section over 6 years ago. I have painful scar tissue and it hurts when I bend. My back is all screwed up and my stomach muscles split in half and never fully healed. Not to mention all the cosmetic issues.

Pregnancy affects a woman for a full lifetime. Even decades after giving birth. My mom had osteoporosis (baby's suck the calcium out of a woman's bones) and incontinence (nice way of saying she peed her pants). These are very common postnatal conditions. She also has breast cancer which may have occurred because she did not breastfeed (I'm not sure how strong the science is on that one - it's just what her doctor told her). That's something to consider as a woman who chooses adoption would most likely not be breastfeeding.

Yeah... it was not pleasant. But the scarier thing was when the doctor who delivered my baby got this panicked look on her face and told the intern to call the surgeon NOW... because I was bleeding really heavily. Luckily, it stopped. Or I would be minus my uterus. So the stage 4 tear was like getting off "easy"... I guess?? Mind you, my labor lasted 6 LONG DAYS. By the end of it, I was so exhausted I didn't care about anything except sleeping.

I was actually more afraid of having a c-section than a tear. C-sections are such major surgical procedures, and yet people seem to think it's like having your wisdom teeth pulled out or something. You'll be up and about in no time. Minor discomfort, that's all. Riiiight. I have a lot of respect for women who have c-sections and still manage to take care of a newborn. Super moms, indeed.

I tend to think moms in general are a tough breed.

Dear, it is not like we haven't mentioned a couple of millions of times that pregnancy has permanent side effects and the potential to have serious permanent side effects.

More so, I did mention the blood donation example a month ago in this thread. No, I have decided that you are no longer able to make arguments disappear by coming a month later and pretending they weren't made. So, let me repeat it:

How would you feel if the government forced you to donate a liter of blood once a week for the following 9 months? It is just 9 months, and it is not permanent donation.

Speaking of arguments you like to pretend are not made: thalamic brain connections not present until 26-th week, the 'developed' brain (not really) you talk about is not even wired to sensory input until the 26-th week.

How are blood donations related, your body can generate more blood cells and you have to be over a certain weight to safely give blood.

Additionally, I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't care about the fact the brain activity is not complex, I care about the fact there is brain activity at all.

Plan B basically makes the interior of the uterus inhospitable to a fertilized egg, but does not interfere with an egg that has already implanted.
'Medical' vs.'surgical' are technical terms - short form, medical is intervention by drugs and surgical is intervention by physical manipulation. A not entirely dissimilar dichotomy is used to categorize patients in the ED: medical vs. trauma, with trauma being physical injury and medical being basically everything else. If your neighbor has been poisoned, he will be described as a medical patient; if shot, as a trauma. There are, of course, often overlaps.

Medical and surgical abortions are both different from spontaneous abortion, which is aka 'miscarriage.'

Jesus Christ on a frying pan, your ignorance just keeps on getting worse. For once please educate yourself before you spout off as if you actually knew something.
Here are some ideas to start with: embryonic anatomy; heart/lung machines, how they work, and what their time limitations are; kidney dialysis; liver failure; artificial vs. human heart transplantation.

whoop-de-do, good for you. So am I and probably most of the rest of us. Has absolutely zilch bearing on the discussion.

It has to do with being forced to donate from your body for the good of another organism, person or otherwise. For you it would only be 9 months, and you could potentially save a life with every donation! As for weight, that's only because they want to take a full unit under current rules; with the proposed legislation, they could simply adjust the amount of blood take so that you'd just be miserable for 9 months rather than dead.

It's a hypothetical question. If there were no such thing as life support, do you think someone should be forced to do this? Can't you just answer the question on principle rather than split hairs to avoid it?

In addition, where did you go when cave canem gave her account of damaging pregnancies? Maybe it's because you are for forcing women through lasting and severe bodily damage against their will?

What you are saying is we should legalize murder because you don't want to deal with a child being in your womb for 9 months. What you are saying is that the child is somehow not human, because you know that Roe v. Wade might get tossed out if the child is recognized as being another human being.

This isn't about forcing anything, this is about the fact the child is stuck inside the womb for X number of months, what you are proposing is essentially murder for conveinence. Forcing people to donate organs (having organs physically removed from them) is a life threatening situation.

When you say there are health risks with pregnency, yeah I think we've seen the health risks used to justify infanticide, such as a simple headache being the justification for a late-term abortion.



It's also a stupid question. You are suggesting someone be forced to give up an organ, and comparing that to a child being in the womb for 9 months. Unless you have developed an artificial womb, your example is rather idiotic for the simple fact the child is present in the womb already, and what you are advocating is the murder of a child because you don't want the burden of said child being inside you for 9 months. I don't view women as incubators and I consider rape to be wrong, however it isn't just the woman's rights we need to consider because the child has rights too.

We are left with a situation where there are two bad situations: one where the woman is essentially carrying a child she doesn't want for 9 months and the other is the murder of the child depriving the child of his/her right to exist.

The lesser of the two evils here is the woman having to carry the child to term.

A fact feminists fail to consider and the fact pro-abortion people don't want the public to consider is that the child has rights too.



My mom actually had to have a C-Section to get me out because I managed to get my head stuck in my mom's rib cage. C-Sections aren't as dangerous as they once were, if you have a doctor that knows what they are doing, if they view the actual giving birth to be too dangerous, they can opt for a C-Section and get the child out that way.

On the poison / shooting, I was of course talking about the legal / ethical / moral question, not the medical - obvious from the point of view of the medical profession the two are quite different, as are physical versus chemical abortions.

I did look up the Plan B thing a little - noting that it varies with the chemistry. Some apparently can operate either to block conception or implantation or as an abortifacient. It also looks as if the various systems are not exactly infallible.

It should be obvious that I do not have a clear-cut abortion stance [beyond a strong wish people would stop front burnering it an issue and an earnest design for people to talk straight].

Contraception is superficially simpler, but I have to say I have thought about it less, and am rather further from having a position.

Clearly, some of the "plan B" chemicals or cocktails would be esentially contraception and come under THAT set of principles.

Personally I would have chopped this whole rabbit chicken many rounds ago, but:

I say [probably again] I do NOT see that the state of brain connections in the human at any given point of development is an ARGUMENT at all relevant to the pros and cons of life termination. I see it as problematic even with brain degeneration at the other end of life.

The presence or absence of a particular physical or mental trait does not change what termination of human life is. So Inuyasha says it can wiggle its ears on the 37th day, ERGO you must not kill it. Why. I ask? Vexcalibur says it cannot wiggle its ears till the 65th day, so killing it is no big deal. Why I ask?

What is the big divine or legal or natural principle that makes ear wiggling the watershed?

when I said that RU-486 caused a 'medical' as opposed to a 'surgical' abortion, I was making a distinction about the impact on the mother, not a moral distinction. Medical treatments are usually better for the patient than surgical ones.

wrt. brain function: it makes a difference because most pro-choice people are concerned about the state of the zef *now,* when the abortion takes place, as opposed to in the hypothetical future.

@Inuyasha: you might not like it, but reality bites.