If a girl is raped and pregnant, should she keep the baby?

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blunnet
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29 Jul 2011, 5:17 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I answered the topic how I chose to.

As I did, and I stated that there is another option (and legal) than adoption, when a woman doesn't want the child of a rapist to be born.

Quote:
If I said that people should be legally permitted to be terminated by their mothers until they are 18 years of age, what would you say to that?

Id' say: Non sequitur.



iamnotaparakeet
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29 Jul 2011, 5:41 pm

blunnet wrote:
Quote:
If I said that people should be legally permitted to be terminated by their mothers until they are 18 years of age, what would you say to that?

Id' say: Non sequitur.


How fitting from someone who has deeply analyzed all of my fallacious misuses of logic within the few months they've been here to provide a non-answer with the misplaced naming of a fallacy.



Philologos
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29 Jul 2011, 6:12 pm

A little more research, and all you need is to transfer the zygote to the rapist and compel him to carry it to term and support it to whatever the age of majority is by then.

--------

More seriously, I know it is almost as gauche to mention it as it is to point out that a foetus does not magically turn into a baby, but still SOMEBODY ought to mention that, according to those I have talked to who have been through it, the terminated pregnancy woman does not always simply walk off cheerily whistling Dixie and looking forward to the rest of her fulfilled life.



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29 Jul 2011, 6:17 pm

Philologos wrote:
the terminated pregnancy woman does not always simply walk off cheerily whistling Dixie and looking forward to the rest of her fulfilled life.


Er, no-one's expecting her to. But it might help as not to exaggerate the pain throughout the rest of her life, particularly if her son or daughter doesn't turn out entirely normal.



DentArthurDent
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29 Jul 2011, 6:22 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If she doesn't want the baby, then adoption. If she does want the baby, then keep the baby. If she wants to kill the rapist, then justifiable homicide.


This is what I like about the far right of religion all, judgement, demands and retribution.

Where in your post keet is there a shred of compassion or christian love for the woman in question, where is the understanding of the emotions involved in

1. Becoming pregnant through such a vile act, and the discordant feelings toward the foetus.
2. Carrying the foetus to full term and giving birth, then handing it over for adoption.
3. The continued angst that the mother will feel regarding her actions.
4. The damage a revenge homicide would cause in the woman's mind.

Now non of these emotions might be present the victim might embrace the thought of motherhood, or be quite at ease with handing the baby over for adoption, killing the rapist might be the best possible therapy for her.

What I would expect from a christian is rarely on show, that is a caring attitude towards the victim, non judgmental help and support for her to make a decision that suites her individual needs, be that abortion, motherhood or adoption, and continued support after the the decision has been made. As to the concept of revenge how I laugh at vengeful, war mongering christians.


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29 Jul 2011, 6:27 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If I said that people should be legally permitted to be terminated by their mothers until they are 18 years of age, what would you say to that?


This has to be the single most idiotic argument against abortion that I have ever come across. I used to think you were somewhat deluded. Now I know you are nothing but a fool.


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29 Jul 2011, 6:30 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
If I said that people should be legally permitted to be terminated by their mothers until they are 18 years of age, what would you say to that?


This has to be the single most idiotic argument against abortion that I have ever come across. I used to think you were somewhat deluded. Now I know you are nothing but a fool.


The man's on the wind-up, you mong.



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29 Jul 2011, 6:42 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:
Where in your post keet is there a shred of compassion or christian love


Compassion and love? Where are they? Far from me if they're demanded of me, and close by me if they're not. It's kind of like an abuser making demands of forgiveness from the persons they've abused, quoting from scripture about how the Bible says to forgive and therefore saying that the people that they've abused must forgive them. Forget that, that's what shotguns are for: dealing with manipulators who deserve to die.

I do feel sorry for those women who have been traumatized by such events, but I rather kill the actual offender rather than a child who's not at fault.



Philologos
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29 Jul 2011, 6:53 pm

DentArthurDent wrote:

This is what I like about the far right of religion all, judgement, demands and retribution.

Where in your post keet is there a shred of compassion or christian love for the woman in question, where is the understanding of the emotions involved in .......

.


I might in my young and stupid days have been capable of compassion mainenance of my various dogmatic positions [for the record, this is all the dogmatism of a young academic atheist].

When however one has seen a person of very deep importance to one put into a new level of intolerable position [a series of drops into the depths] and observed first hand her state after the series of deathly strokes, rigidity absent compassion is not an option.



LKL
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29 Jul 2011, 6:53 pm

Dessie wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
I'm pro-life but it does seem kind of cruel to say a girl who's raped HAS to become a mom. Though on the other hand I find the idea of killing a baby because of the circumstances they were created by appalling. What do you think?

I guess I would say abortion is acceptable in the case of rape if the girl is under 14 or so and isn't physically capable of having a baby, or if the woman is suicidal as a result of the rape because that would classify as a life-threatening situation. I hate the idea that the rapist's baby should be killed because of what their father did, to me it's a form of honor killing and most religious pro-lifers actually support abortion when it comes to rape which I find inconsistent.

I just think if it HAS to be the mother or the baby, the mother should come first. But if the girl/woman is physically and emotionally capable of having the baby, she should have it probably and if she doesn't like the baby because it reminds her of its dad, she can give it up for adoption.


I'm pro-choice.

If the girl/woman has been raped, and the rape results in pregnancy, if she doesn't want the baby then she shouldn't have to have it. She has the right to have an abortion. Even if she is "physically and emotionally capable" and doesn't want the baby, she shouldn't have to have it.

I can't imagine being forced to have sex/get pregnant (raped) and then being forced to have the baby that could result from that rape. In my mind it seems horrible beyond belief. I don't think I'd care if the baby were innocent or not, the way that baby got in there would overshadow that. I think I'd honestly kill myself before I'd have my rapist's baby.

And when it comes to abortion, in my mind the reason for the pregnancy doesn't even figure in. If a woman gets pregnant unexpectedly or by accident and doesn't want to have a baby then she has the right to have an abortion.

I'm a serious believer in birth control and sex ed in schools (which both result in fewer unplanned pregnancies and therefore fewer abortions). It would be nice if abortion was never required, but since it is sometimes, the women who need that procedure have the right to have it.

It's up to the individual woman, but personally I'm with Dessie on this one. Carrying the offspring of a rapist would be like having my own body turned into the rapist's tool, and even if abortion were illegal I'd risk frying my liver with pennyroyal tea before I carried a rapist's offspring to term.



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29 Jul 2011, 7:24 pm

luckily banning abortion is a pipe dream for the wicked few that venture so far as to judge without context.

i dont know about the us but i dont think any of the european countries would even think of seriously discussing the issue in parlament (or similar).

index of abortion laws around the world


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29 Jul 2011, 7:41 pm

Oodain wrote:
i dont know about the us but i dont think any of the european countries would even think of seriously discussing the issue in parlament (or similar).


The Irish (and the Northern Irish, for that part is in the UK) and the Maltese, especially, are very reluctant to change their abortion laws.

Hell, the Maltese have only just made divorce legal in Malta!



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29 Jul 2011, 7:48 pm

I definitely think adoption is the way to go if the girl doesn't want to/hasn't the means to keep her baby. She's doing what's best for it. Abortion is terrible in my opinion, unless it's to save the mother's life. Even then, it's sad that a human had to die.



Dingo7
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29 Jul 2011, 8:57 pm

I would say adoption before abortion definetly... but im trying to imagine what it would be like to be told when your so old that your not only adopted but your biological father was a rapist... :? heavy...


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Oodain
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29 Jul 2011, 9:17 pm

forcing a pregnancy will only cause resentment and misery.

what if no one adopts the child?
a whole life in foster homes and institutions might damage the child as much as the mother.


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29 Jul 2011, 9:39 pm

Philologos wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
I'm pro-choice (used to be pro-life) and she shouldn't be forced to keep a baby as a result of rape. However, I believe abortions should be avoided as much as possible so adoption is a better option in my opinion.

donnie_darko wrote:
Philologos wrote:
So - are you asking for feedback or pronouncing? It makes a difference and a lot of query-form threads constiture manifesti.


I'm asking, and answering first. What do you think?
Don't worry about him, he just purposely likes being dense. Probably because it makes him look "deep" or "thought provoking".


Thank you for making me look more intelligent by contrast. If I am dense, it is not done on purpose, just as I suspect this inanity of yours is involuntary.

donnie darko, I asked because it was not clear. When I start a question thread, I am seriously asking for feedback. I sometimes - usually as an afterthought - add my own ideas.

But a large percentage are saying "Is Philogos dumb?" amd meaning "Everybody knows Philologos is dumb". So - just wondered.

If that bde dumb, make the most of it.
Sorry if you weren't doing that by purpose but the title has a question mark so it should've been clear that donnie was asking for your imput.