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wcoltd
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08 Aug 2011, 8:44 pm

There is a belief among many religious people, that the Atheist world view is somehow dull, that life is meaningless.

What many Atheists believe is that we are in a universe nearly 28 billion light years across from end to end. A space so vast we cannot possibly imagine. We have appeared on this earth, by the rarest of accidents, and as far as we know, we are smartest species.

I don't think there is anything that makes me think "life is meaningless."

By contrast, a person who is religious believes we should all, from birth be wracked with guilt, and appease to some mythical being to repent for our sins.

I don't know about you but I would rather be an atheist than live my life trying to be forgiven for all the bullshit I've done in my life.



blauSamstag
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08 Aug 2011, 9:50 pm

wcoltd wrote:
There is a belief among many religious people, that the Atheist world view is somehow dull, that life is meaningless.

What many Atheists believe is that we are in a universe nearly 28 billion light years across from end to end. A space so vast we cannot possibly imagine. We have appeared on this earth, by the rarest of accidents, and as far as we know, we are smartest species.

I don't think there is anything that makes me think "life is meaningless."

By contrast, a person who is religious believes we should all, from birth be wracked with guilt, and appease to some mythical being to repent for our sins.

I don't know about you but I would rather be an atheist than live my life trying to be forgiven for all the bullshit I've done in my life.


The affirming nature of atheism vs. most religions is the realization that this life is not only meaningful, but the only meaning we will ever have.

Further, that although we can't abdicate any evil to the devil, we also cannot abdicate any responsibility to a god.

All that man has done has been done by man alone. Doesn't that say something about our potential?



wcoltd
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08 Aug 2011, 10:00 pm

blauSamstag wrote:
wcoltd wrote:
There is a belief among many religious people, that the Atheist world view is somehow dull, that life is meaningless.

What many Atheists believe is that we are in a universe nearly 28 billion light years across from end to end. A space so vast we cannot possibly imagine. We have appeared on this earth, by the rarest of accidents, and as far as we know, we are smartest species.

I don't think there is anything that makes me think "life is meaningless."

By contrast, a person who is religious believes we should all, from birth be wracked with guilt, and appease to some mythical being to repent for our sins.

I don't know about you but I would rather be an atheist than live my life trying to be forgiven for all the bullshit I've done in my life.


The affirming nature of atheism vs. most religions is the realization that this life is not only meaningful, but the only meaning we will ever have.

Further, that although we can't abdicate any evil to the devil, we also cannot abdicate any responsibility to a god.

All that man has done has been done by man alone. Doesn't that say something about our potential?


I couldn't say it any better myself.



StevieC
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08 Aug 2011, 10:31 pm

wcoltd wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
wcoltd wrote:
There is a belief among many religious people, that the Atheist world view is somehow dull, that life is meaningless.

What many Atheists believe is that we are in a universe nearly 28 billion light years across from end to end. A space so vast we cannot possibly imagine. We have appeared on this earth, by the rarest of accidents, and as far as we know, we are smartest species.

I don't think there is anything that makes me think "life is meaningless."

By contrast, a person who is religious believes we should all, from birth be wracked with guilt, and appease to some mythical being to repent for our sins.

I don't know about you but I would rather be an atheist than live my life trying to be forgiven for all the bullshit I've done in my life.


The affirming nature of atheism vs. most religions is the realization that this life is not only meaningful, but the only meaning we will ever have.

Further, that although we can't abdicate any evil to the devil, we also cannot abdicate any responsibility to a god.

All that man has done has been done by man alone. Doesn't that say something about our potential?


I couldn't say it any better myself.


I'm a creationist.

man created god :D


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blauSamstag
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08 Aug 2011, 10:44 pm

StevieC wrote:
wcoltd wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
wcoltd wrote:
There is a belief among many religious people, that the Atheist world view is somehow dull, that life is meaningless.

What many Atheists believe is that we are in a universe nearly 28 billion light years across from end to end. A space so vast we cannot possibly imagine. We have appeared on this earth, by the rarest of accidents, and as far as we know, we are smartest species.

I don't think there is anything that makes me think "life is meaningless."

By contrast, a person who is religious believes we should all, from birth be wracked with guilt, and appease to some mythical being to repent for our sins.

I don't know about you but I would rather be an atheist than live my life trying to be forgiven for all the bullshit I've done in my life.


The affirming nature of atheism vs. most religions is the realization that this life is not only meaningful, but the only meaning we will ever have.

Further, that although we can't abdicate any evil to the devil, we also cannot abdicate any responsibility to a god.

All that man has done has been done by man alone. Doesn't that say something about our potential?


I couldn't say it any better myself.


I'm a creationist.

man created god :D


Sure, but just like the rampantly misunderstood "God is Dead", in this sense we mean the concept of God. And the beatles are bigger anyway.



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08 Aug 2011, 10:48 pm

wcoltd wrote:
What many Atheists believe is that we are in a universe nearly 28 billion light years across from end to end.

If that's what Atheists believe, they're wrong.

I assume you got that number by taking the age of the universe rounded to the nearest billion years and doubling it. The light from the furthest observable objects has been travelling for about 13.7 billion years, but space has been expanding as it travels, so the observable universe would have a radius of about 46 billion light years.

Quote:
and as far as we know, we are smartest species.

And we have a sample size of 1 planet. There are something like 10^21 stars in the observable universe, and we have recently discovered that planets are not at all unusual for a star.

We have so little information that we might as well say that as far as we know, we are the dumbest species to have ever constructed a civilization. Since we don't know jack, this is equally likely.

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By contrast, a person who is religious believes we should all, from birth be wracked with guilt,

I am a religious person who does not believe this, and I can assure you that exactly the opposite of this is how I and every other person of my religion that I have ever met believe.

In a post about how others misinterpret your position on religion, you should avoid doing the same to others.


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blauSamstag
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08 Aug 2011, 11:23 pm

Ancalagon wrote:
Quote:
By contrast, a person who is religious believes we should all, from birth be wracked with guilt,

I am a religious person who does not believe this, and I can assure you that exactly the opposite of this is how I and every other person of my religion that I have ever met believe.

In a post about how others misinterpret your position on religion, you should avoid doing the same to others.


It's a broad generalization but you have to admit that many judeo-christian faiths have at least a strong cultural trend of fear and guilt.



wcoltd
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08 Aug 2011, 11:33 pm

Ancalagon wrote:
wcoltd wrote:
What many Atheists believe is that we are in a universe nearly 28 billion light years across from end to end.

If that's what Atheists believe, they're wrong.

I assume you got that number by taking the age of the universe rounded to the nearest billion years and doubling it. The light from the furthest observable objects has been travelling for about 13.7 billion years, but space has been expanding as it travels, so the observable universe would have a radius of about 46 billion light years.

Quote:
and as far as we know, we are smartest species.

And we have a sample size of 1 planet. There are something like 10^21 stars in the observable universe, and we have recently discovered that planets are not at all unusual for a star.

We have so little information that we might as well say that as far as we know, we are the dumbest species to have ever constructed a civilization. Since we don't know jack, this is equally likely.

Quote:
By contrast, a person who is religious believes we should all, from birth be wracked with guilt,

I am a religious person who does not believe this, and I can assure you that exactly the opposite of this is how I and every other person of my religion that I have ever met believe.

In a post about how others misinterpret your position on religion, you should avoid doing the same to others.


We can't observe anything larger than 13.75 +-.11 billion light years, therefore a universe larger than that can't be observed. Therefore it's really not part of our "observable" universe. I didn't type "observable" universe because I thought it was redundant.

Also our sample size of the universe is quite large, if there was intelligent life that was trying to contact us, we have the entire observable universe to detect these transmissions - so far as the conditions for intelligent life were present, and we have not recieved these transmissions.

On your point about misinterpreting the position of religion, I wasn't speaking about your brand of religion I was talking about the philosophy of repenting for your sins, and what a wasteful way to live life that is.



Ancalagon
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09 Aug 2011, 2:00 am

wcoltd wrote:
We can't observe anything larger than 13.75 +-.11 billion light years, therefore a universe larger than that can't be observed. Therefore it's really not part of our "observable" universe. I didn't type "observable" universe because I thought it was redundant.

Space is and has been expanding. Space itself. So when light travels from point A to point B, the space between point A and point B expands and the distance becomes larger. By the time the light gets to point B, the distance from point A to point B is larger than the distance the light travelled.

Quote:
Also our sample size of the universe is quite large, if there was intelligent life that was trying to contact us, we have the entire observable universe to detect these transmissions - so far as the conditions for intelligent life were present, and we have not recieved these transmissions.

We can look at things that are very far away, but it isn't that far away that we could detect a civilization that was trying to contact us. That's assuming they're trying to contact us.

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I wasn't speaking about your brand of religion I was talking about the philosophy of repenting for your sins,

That is my brand of religion. In what way is "we should all, from birth be wracked with guilt" like "the philosophy of repenting for your sins"?


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wcoltd
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09 Aug 2011, 6:57 am

Ancalagon wrote:
wcoltd wrote:
We can't observe anything larger than 13.75 +-.11 billion light years, therefore a universe larger than that can't be observed. Therefore it's really not part of our "observable" universe. I didn't type "observable" universe because I thought it was redundant.

Space is and has been expanding. Space itself. So when light travels from point A to point B, the space between point A and point B expands and the distance becomes larger. By the time the light gets to point B, the distance from point A to point B is larger than the distance the light travelled.

Quote:
Also our sample size of the universe is quite large, if there was intelligent life that was trying to contact us, we have the entire observable universe to detect these transmissions - so far as the conditions for intelligent life were present, and we have not recieved these transmissions.

We can look at things that are very far away, but it isn't that far away that we could detect a civilization that was trying to contact us. That's assuming they're trying to contact us.

Quote:
I wasn't speaking about your brand of religion I was talking about the philosophy of repenting for your sins,

That is my brand of religion. In what way is "we should all, from birth be wracked with guilt" like "the philosophy of repenting for your sins"?


1) light cannot travel further than that, because what you are forgetting is that the universe grows in front of the light as well, so there is a range at which the light can't be seen, that range happens to be - out of no coincidence - 13.75 billion light years give or take.

What it means is that at the edge of the observable universe is the place where, if a light emitting body were any futher than that, it could not be observed, because the relative velocity between us and that point in space-time approaches c. The light would never reach us.

2) Yes it is assuming that they are trying to contact us.

3) Ok, then I am talking about your brand of religion



Last edited by wcoltd on 09 Aug 2011, 8:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

Moog
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09 Aug 2011, 7:20 am

wcoltd wrote:
a person who is religious believes we should all, from birth be wracked with guilt, and appease to some mythical being to repent for our sins.


Oh dear, what a silly thing to say.


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09 Aug 2011, 9:35 am

wcoltd wrote:
I don't think there is anything that makes me think "life is meaningless."

Well, the no free will thing clinches the notion that there is really no such thing as meaningul existence anyway.

wcoltd wrote:
By contrast, a person who is religious believes we should all, from birth be wracked with guilt, and appease to some mythical being to repent for our sins.

These days at least in the west its a belief that something loving and benevolent is on your side. Then again if you're going through repeated trauma and your all to overcome it or full out search to find out how you're responsible comes up short you go crazy. I really quit for the later reason, believing that the state of my life was a diety calling me out on faults that I couldn't fix was just too emotionally unhealthy. Now, taking it that humanity has very limited potential, that social red tape and ignorance are a part of us being apes first and people second - it can be a little discouraging but its barely matched by the relief of not feeling like everything that happens in my life or even worse happens to other people across the globe isn't some type of deliberate act by a higher power.


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09 Aug 2011, 10:58 am

wcoltd wrote:
... I don't know about you but I would rather be an atheist than live my life trying to be forgiven for all the bullshit I've done in my life.

Not just your sins, but the cumulative sins of every one of your ancestors, all the way back to Adam and Eve!
Moog wrote:
wcoltd wrote:
a person who is religious believes we should all, from birth be wracked with guilt, and appease to some mythical being to repent for our sins.

Oh dear, what a silly thing to say.

Sorry, Moogie ... it's being taught by Christians to young, impressionable children in an effort to scare those children into embracing Christianity, so that their ever-loving "Sky Daddy" doesn't get mad and punish them with being eternally roasted in Hell's flames.

Ain't religion wonderful?

:roll:



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09 Aug 2011, 11:06 am

Atheism is VERY dull on December 25th.
I'm always Christian that day. :wink:



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09 Aug 2011, 11:12 am

or people actually celebrate their family and a year gone by, only thinly veiled in christianity by society.


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