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ruveyn
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23 Aug 2011, 9:35 am

The Palestinians were NEVER, EVER ethnically cleansed. There are more now than there were in 1948 when Israel was declared a state. They breed quickly and numerously. In the medium run Israel is doomed because her natural birthrate is too low in comparison and immigration is not making up the difference. The Palestinians are out breeding the Israelis and will, in due course, over run them.

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iamnotaparakeet
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23 Aug 2011, 10:45 am

ruveyn wrote:
The best outcome would have been for Germany to hold out another six months so we could have nuked Dresden. That would have sent a powerful message to both the Japanese and the Soviets. The idea of whupping Nazi Germany with the product of Jewish Physics is deliciously ironic. Making Nukes became a Jewish cottage industry in the U.S. in the early days of nuclear weapon development.

ruveyn


That would have been simply poetic.



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23 Aug 2011, 11:02 am

Nuclear weapons do not provide Israel with any security. Nuclear detterence buys time and provides protection against sane enemies but provides no protection against an insane enemy who seeks nuclear martyrdom.



ruveyn
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23 Aug 2011, 11:06 am

androbot2084 wrote:
Nuclear weapons do not provide Israel with any security. Nuclear detterence buys time and provides protection against sane enemies but provides no protection against an insane enemy who seeks nuclear martyrdom.



So why aren't the Israelis all dead?

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androbot2084
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23 Aug 2011, 11:33 am

Nuclear weapons only buys Israel time. Iran simply does not have the infrastructure yet to wage a nuclear war against Israel and of course cannot defeat Israel using conventional forces.



JakobVirgil
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23 Aug 2011, 3:16 pm

ruveyn wrote:
The Palestinians were NEVER, EVER ethnically cleansed. There are more now than there were in 1948 when Israel was declared a state. They breed quickly and numerously. In the medium run Israel is doomed because her natural birthrate is too low in comparison and immigration is not making up the difference. The Palestinians are out breeding the Israelis and will, in due course, over run them.

ruveyn


This is why Israelis that oppose the two state solution are Naive the longer we wait the better the position of the Palestinians.
No matter how many buildings are bulldozed and settlements are built. (these tactics weaken international support)
If they wait too long the will be a one state solution a democracy with a Muslim majority.
But maybe that would be best for everyone.


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Tequila
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23 Aug 2011, 3:57 pm

ruveyn wrote:
So why aren't the Israelis all dead?


I want to visit Israel at some point in my life. If there was any, and I mean any, country I would ever want to visit in that part of the world, it would be Israel. Mainly because Israel is the West in the Middle East. If Israel falls, bye bye Kansas.



The_Face_of_Boo
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23 Aug 2011, 4:41 pm

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Mainly because Israel is the West in the Middle East.


Exactly, that's why it shouldn't be there in the first place. Image


Ok, just for the sake of debate, let's suppose that the bible is really the God's word and an accurate historical reference. Image


The Zionist Jews claim that they have the moral right and legitimacy of restoring the land by any means necessary, because, according to the bible, they are the 'descendants' of the land's owners around 2500 years ago.

But the Bible also says that the first Hebrews invaded the lands of Canaan, doesn't that also give the 'descendants' of the Canaanites the legitimacy of kicking out the descendants of their invaders?



visagrunt
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23 Aug 2011, 5:44 pm

Well, then by that logic, what business do the Hashemites have there? The Palestinians already have a homeland, it's called Jordan.

The reality is that none of these arguments have any merit. The real circumstances on the ground are what needs to inform the discussion.

No solution that erases the State of Israel from the map, or that fails to create a Palestinian state on the map has any hope of success.


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ruveyn
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23 Aug 2011, 7:32 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
If they wait too long the will be a one state solution a democracy with a Muslim majority.
But maybe that would be best for everyone.


The end state will not be a democracy. It will be a corrupt thugocracy. That is the best the Palestinians are capable of.

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23 Aug 2011, 8:49 pm

visagrunt wrote:
Well, then by that logic, what business do the Hashemites have there? The Palestinians already have a homeland, it's called Jordan.

The reality is that none of these arguments have any merit. The real circumstances on the ground are what needs to inform the discussion.

No solution that erases the State of Israel from the map, or that fails to create a Palestinian state on the map has any hope of success.


QFT


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Inuyasha
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23 Aug 2011, 10:14 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
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Mainly because Israel is the West in the Middle East.


Exactly, that's why it shouldn't be there in the first place. Image


Ok, just for the sake of debate, let's suppose that the bible is really the God's word and an accurate historical reference. Image


The Zionist Jews claim that they have the moral right and legitimacy of restoring the land by any means necessary, because, according to the bible, they are the 'descendants' of the land's owners around 2500 years ago.

But the Bible also says that the first Hebrews invaded the lands of Canaan, doesn't that also give the 'descendants' of the Canaanites the legitimacy of kicking out the descendants of their invaders?


Israel is there because Europeans were so ashamed of what they had allowed to happen (i.e. the holocaust) that they essentially wanted to get the surviving Jewish People out of Europe. Then there were those that attacked Jewish People whom were trying to get their homes back. Basically, whenever they saw a Jewish person whom had a number tatooed on their arm the Europeans probably felt a sickening guilt.

The Jewish Survivors of the Holocaust for a large part, wanted out of Europe and their own homeland back, they didn't trust their former neighbors (and for good reason).

As for Muslims whom stayed within Israel when it became a country, they are actually full Israeli Citizens.

Also as for the claims that the Jewish people are trying to commit genocide, if they are, it is the most incompetitent campaign to wipe out an ethnic group that has been seen in World History. Considering the fact the Israeli military is one of the most well trained in the World and their Air Force could probably mop the floor with the US Air Force (Israeli pilots are considered the best in the world), I don't see how anyone can honestly claim Israelis are out to wipe out the Palestinians.



The_Face_of_Boo
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24 Aug 2011, 4:56 am

puddingmouse wrote:
visagrunt wrote:
Well, then by that logic, what business do the Hashemites have there? The Palestinians already have a homeland, it's called Jordan.

The reality is that none of these arguments have any merit. The real circumstances on the ground are what needs to inform the discussion.

No solution that erases the State of Israel from the map, or that fails to create a Palestinian state on the map has any hope of success.


QFT


Quoted for total Bullcrap and falsification.

There's no study that shows that Palestinians were Hashemites.


We can also say that Norwegians are Swedes.

So, first they are Jordanians, and then you say they are Syrians, then they are of many different nationalities? What's next? I think I smell a load of bovine manure.

Israelis claim that Palestinians do not exist for the same reason that Chinese claim that Tibetans do not exist; that lie makes it much easier to justify what they are doing.

The oldest common origin of Palestinians, Lebanese and Syrians are the Canaanites. Those people today are called "Arabs" because of their current language .

The word "Arab" is a very term vague, it can refer to: The Arab race (The Gulf's Arabs) and the "Arabphones" (Non-Arab people who were culturally and linguistically conquered by Arabs.)
We even have a local term to refer to the 'real Arabs'.

Palestinians are of the Arabphone people, they weren't originally Arabs.

Jordanians are a totally different case (except the Palestinians who reside in Jordan due to the exodus), they were descended from Hashemites and Nabataeans, and other Ancient Arab tribes.

Palestinians are not Jordanians. It is ridiculous and ignorant to assume otherwise.

Mexicans speak Spanish, but most of them aren't Spaniards.

Okay, so Jews have a right to exist. I agree. I also agree with you that ones' own country, established just for them, is necessary to secure their right to exist.

Now let me ask you the following:

Do white gentiles have a right to exist?



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 24 Aug 2011, 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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24 Aug 2011, 9:54 am

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Israel is there because Europeans were so ashamed of what they had allowed to happen (i.e. the holocaust) that they essentially wanted to get the surviving Jewish People out of Europe. Then there were those that attacked Jewish People whom were trying to get their homes back. Basically, whenever they saw a Jewish person whom had a number tatooed on their arm the Europeans probably felt a sickening guilt.


So the Palestinians have to pay the price of the Europeans' shame? A small portion of the defeated Germany could have been the solution.



ruveyn
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24 Aug 2011, 10:00 am

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
Quote:
Israel is there because Europeans were so ashamed of what they had allowed to happen (i.e. the holocaust) that they essentially wanted to get the surviving Jewish People out of Europe. Then there were those that attacked Jewish People whom were trying to get their homes back. Basically, whenever they saw a Jewish person whom had a number tatooed on their arm the Europeans probably felt a sickening guilt.


So the Palestinians have to pay the price of Europeans' shame?


Long before the Holocaust there was a movement by the Zionists to go back to the ancient homeland of the Jews (which was taken by force from the Cana'anites and other tribes in the area) If the Zionists really wanted to go back to square zero they should have tried to establish a state around Ur Casdim (Ur of the Chaldees) which is located in what is now Kuwait where Abraham came from.

Jerusalem is originally a Jebusite village on high ground. Later built up by Solomon as a walled city .

The entire business is bullsh*t.

ruveyn