Page 1 of 5 [ 65 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next


before what month is abortion acceptable
1st 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
2nd 8%  8%  [ 1 ]
3rd 15%  15%  [ 2 ]
4th 15%  15%  [ 2 ]
5th 8%  8%  [ 1 ]
6th 15%  15%  [ 2 ]
7th 8%  8%  [ 1 ]
8th 15%  15%  [ 2 ]
never or always i.e. you are too dumb to follow instructions 15%  15%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 13

JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

22 Oct 2011, 11:19 pm

Any one who has an opinion on when abortion should be allowed that is
not never or always let us come to an agreement on the week before which
the termination of a pregnancy is usually ok and the week after which it is never ok.
let avoid rape incest and health of the mother exceptions and focus on dates.

I feel first trimester is O.K.
Second is morally ambiguous
and third is wrong.

these are rough times and I never think that it is murder.
which could just be my Jewish bias.

so the people in the middle with me discuss.


_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/


Last edited by JakobVirgil on 23 Oct 2011, 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,726
Location: New Jersey

22 Oct 2011, 11:36 pm

JakobVirgil wrote:
Any one who has an opinion on when abortion should be allowed that is
not never or always let us come to an agreement on the week before which
the termination of a pregnancy is usually ok and the week after which it is never ok.
let avoid rape incest and health of the mother exceptions and focus on dates.

I feel first trimester is O.K.
Second is morally ambiguous
and third is wrong.



The women owns whatever is in her body and has the right to dispose of it as she sees fit.

Women should not be compelled to be the brood-mares of the human race.

ruveyn



Descartes
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Apr 2008
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,154
Location: Arlington, Texas

22 Oct 2011, 11:44 pm

I'm okay with restrictions on abortion in the second and third trimester just as long as there are exceptions in cases of medical emergencies. Otherwise, I think they should be readily available upon request, with as few obstructions as possible.

Also, I agree with what ruveyn said.


_________________
What fresh hell is this?


Deuterium
Deinonychus
Deinonychus

User avatar

Joined: 7 Jul 2011
Gender: Male
Posts: 360
Location: United States, GA

22 Oct 2011, 11:56 pm

I think aborting within the month before the expected birth date would be a bit questionable, as you have had quite a while to make the decision (assuming you'd known you were pregnant), but I would not tell someone that they couldn't. My opinion isn't very meaningful either way since I can't give birth, myself.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,726
Location: New Jersey

23 Oct 2011, 12:07 am

JakobVirgil wrote:

these are rough times and I never think that it is murder.
which could just be my Jewish bias.

.


If you don't think abortion is murder than why do you have any objections to it or misgivings about it?

ruveyn



JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

23 Oct 2011, 12:08 am

ruveyn wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:

these are rough times and I never think that it is murder.
which could just be my Jewish bias.

.


If you don't think abortion is murder than why do you have any objections to it or misgivings about it?

ruveyn


things can be wrong without being murder.


_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/


Oodain
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Jan 2011
Age: 29
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,022
Location: in my own little tamarillo jungle,

23 Oct 2011, 12:16 am

Descartes wrote:
I'm okay with restrictions on abortion in the second and third trimester just as long as there are exceptions in cases of medical emergencies. Otherwise, I think they should be readily available upon request, with as few obstructions as possible.

Also, I agree with what ruveyn said.


this,


_________________
//through chaos comes complexity//

the scent of the tamarillo is pungent and powerfull,
woe be to the nose who nears it.


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,726
Location: New Jersey

23 Oct 2011, 12:16 am

JakobVirgil wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:

these are rough times and I never think that it is murder.
which could just be my Jewish bias.

.


If you don't think abortion is murder than why do you have any objections to it or misgivings about it?

ruveyn


things can be wrong without being murder.


What are the possible wrongs? Whose blood is shed? Whose bones are broken:? Whose ox is gored. Whose purse is snatched. Who was defrauded. Who was humiliated publicly.

I find abortion to be ugly when not necessary, but that is an aesthetic objection, not a moral objection.

ruveyn



JakobVirgil
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2011
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 3,744
Location: yes

23 Oct 2011, 12:21 am

ruveyn wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:

these are rough times and I never think that it is murder.
which could just be my Jewish bias.

.


If you don't think abortion is murder than why do you have any objections to it or misgivings about it?

ruveyn


things can be wrong without being murder.


What are the possible wrongs? Whose blood is shed? Whose bones are broken:? Whose ox is gored. Whose purse is snatched. Who was defrauded. Who was humiliated publicly.

I find abortion to be ugly when not necessary, but that is an aesthetic objection, not a moral objection.

ruveyn


good argument.


_________________
?We must not look at goblin men,
We must not buy their fruits:
Who knows upon what soil they fed
Their hungry thirsty roots??

http://jakobvirgil.blogspot.com/


Inuyasha
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,745

23 Oct 2011, 12:27 am

My stance is that as soon as the first brain activity is detectable, that is the cutoff point for when abortion should be legal (barring extreme medical emergency situation).

If I remember correctly, that means that I would be for imposing restrictions on abortion in the 1st trimester).

Btw, the brain and spinal cord are among the first things to form (though the brain continues to develop throughout the pregnency).



YippySkippy
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 26 Feb 2011
Age: 39
Gender: Female
Posts: 4,128

23 Oct 2011, 8:40 am

I'm okay with allowing first-trimester abortions, but after that I think it should be very heavily restricted. I think that the time to decide whether one is going to continue a pregnancy is immediately after discovering one is pregnant. Not two or three or five months later.



peebo
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Mar 2006
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,627
Location: scotland

23 Oct 2011, 8:43 am

ruveyn wrote:

The women owns whatever is in her body and has the right to dispose of it as she sees fit.

Women should not be compelled to be the brood-mares of the human race.

ruveyn




it seems to me that this would be the only reasonable position to take.


_________________
?Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.?

Adam Smith


Gedrene
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

23 Oct 2011, 9:00 am

ruveyn wrote:
JakobVirgil wrote:
Any one who has an opinion on when abortion should be allowed that is
not never or always let us come to an agreement on the week before which
the termination of a pregnancy is usually ok and the week after which it is never ok.
let avoid rape incest and health of the mother exceptions and focus on dates.

I feel first trimester is O.K.
Second is morally ambiguous
and third is wrong.



The women owns whatever is in her body and has the right to dispose of it as she sees fit.

Women should not be compelled to be the brood-mares of the human race.

ruveyn

Erm, right. Well I alreadyd ebated this easily. I don't need your brood-mare comment anywhere thankyou. You can stick your dispariging characterization where the sun don't shine.

People don't have the specialn right to dispose of any other Human being. Full stop. There are other reasons for when abortion can be acceptable, but this sort of childishness isn't one of them.



techstepgenr8tion
SomeRandomGuy
SomeRandomGuy

User avatar

Joined: 6 Feb 2005
Age: 39
Gender: Male
Posts: 20,944
Location: The 27th Path of Peh.

23 Oct 2011, 9:03 am

JakobVirgil wrote:
I feel first trimester is O.K.
Second is morally ambiguous
and third is wrong.

I agree with this format at least on the suffering front.

OTOH I'd place one more brick beneath all of that. Its a loss of human resource or talent, especially when its two people who were highly educated and had an accident at Harvard or Yale, even many paces below that. At other times even in the lower-middle and lower class, we still have no idea what we're losing as an opportunity cost. I suppose if someone wanted to debate this point they could claim infinite regress into "What about all the possible kids that people don't have?" - I still say that an event, such as a pregnancy, is where it starts becoming a rational question. If there are truly brilliant and childless people and society doesn't want to see that, society will need to work on that one to raise their incentives or at least have representatives from the local sperm/egg bank wine, dine, and offer them baseball star contracts.


_________________
"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privelege of owning yourself" - Rudyard Kipling


Gedrene
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 9 Jul 2011
Age: 28
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,725

23 Oct 2011, 9:04 am

peebo wrote:
ruveyn wrote:

The women owns whatever is in her body and has the right to dispose of it as she sees fit.

Women should not be compelled to be the brood-mares of the human race.

ruveyn




it seems to me that this would be the only reasonable position to take.


Because you say so? A just so fallacy.

Fact is any Human foetus is a Human as any Human zygote is a Human. You're killing a Human. You don't have a special right to just dispose of a Human just because they are in your body. Give me a good reason, not some pseudo-it's a parasite rubbish.