Common Ground Abortion non-debate.

Post Reply New Topic

Any one who has an opinion on when abortion should be allowed that is
not never or always let us come to an agreement on the week before which
the termination of a pregnancy is usually ok and the week after which it is never ok.
let avoid rape incest and health of the mother exceptions and focus on dates.

I feel first trimester is O.K.
Second is morally ambiguous
and third is wrong.

these are rough times and I never think that it is murder.
which could just be my Jewish bias.

so the people in the middle with me discuss.

Last edited by JakobVirgil on 23 Oct 2011, 2:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The women owns whatever is in her body and has the right to dispose of it as she sees fit.

Women should not be compelled to be the brood-mares of the human race.

ruveyn

I'm okay with restrictions on abortion in the second and third trimester just as long as there are exceptions in cases of medical emergencies. Otherwise, I think they should be readily available upon request, with as few obstructions as possible.

Also, I agree with what ruveyn said.

I think aborting within the month before the expected birth date would be a bit questionable, as you have had quite a while to make the decision (assuming you'd known you were pregnant), but I would not tell someone that they couldn't. My opinion isn't very meaningful either way since I can't give birth, myself.

If you don't think abortion is murder than why do you have any objections to it or misgivings about it?

ruveyn

things can be wrong without being murder.

this,

What are the possible wrongs? Whose blood is shed? Whose bones are broken:? Whose ox is gored. Whose purse is snatched. Who was defrauded. Who was humiliated publicly.

I find abortion to be ugly when not necessary, but that is an aesthetic objection, not a moral objection.

ruveyn

good argument.

My stance is that as soon as the first brain activity is detectable, that is the cutoff point for when abortion should be legal (barring extreme medical emergency situation).

If I remember correctly, that means that I would be for imposing restrictions on abortion in the 1st trimester).

Btw, the brain and spinal cord are among the first things to form (though the brain continues to develop throughout the pregnency).

I'm okay with allowing first-trimester abortions, but after that I think it should be very heavily restricted. I think that the time to decide whether one is going to continue a pregnancy is immediately after discovering one is pregnant. Not two or three or five months later.

it seems to me that this would be the only reasonable position to take.

Erm, right. Well I alreadyd ebated this easily. I don't need your brood-mare comment anywhere thankyou. You can stick your dispariging characterization where the sun don't shine.

People don't have the specialn right to dispose of any other Human being. Full stop. There are other reasons for when abortion can be acceptable, but this sort of childishness isn't one of them.

I agree with this format at least on the suffering front.

OTOH I'd place one more brick beneath all of that. Its a loss of human resource or talent, especially when its two people who were highly educated and had an accident at Harvard or Yale, even many paces below that. At other times even in the lower-middle and lower class, we still have no idea what we're losing as an opportunity cost. I suppose if someone wanted to debate this point they could claim infinite regress into "What about all the possible kids that people don't have?" - I still say that an event, such as a pregnancy, is where it starts becoming a rational question. If there are truly brilliant and childless people and society doesn't want to see that, society will need to work on that one to raise their incentives or at least have representatives from the local sperm/egg bank wine, dine, and offer them baseball star contracts.

Because you say so? A just so fallacy.

Fact is any Human foetus is a Human as any Human zygote is a Human. You're killing a Human. You don't have a special right to just dispose of a Human just because they are in your body. Give me a good reason, not some pseudo-it's a parasite rubbish.

by that sole criterion live skin cells count the same.

when you look at all facets there is one distinguishing feature from individual human cells, the majority of animals and all the rest of known biology;
consciousness

besides using that as a criterion takes care of many problems besides abortion,

find something besides "because you say a human is a human" (as you basically put it yourself in reverse)
at least this position is not arbitrary