Do you believe in a spirit world?

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Ragtime
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27 Nov 2011, 1:29 pm

Vigilans wrote:

"Ghost reality shows" LOL

I've seen some definite fakes on these shows, for sure. But also some which are more likely true than false. And I go with the preponderance of evidence in each case.
I am actually highly skeptical of ghost stories, not because I automatically believe each story is untrue (that wouldn't be very openminded), but because a person really evidencing such experiences to an audience in a substantial way is inherently very hard to do. My wife and I have had a few experiences ourselves, so we don't take our belief in "ghosts" (demons) entirely from these shows.

The biggest fake I ever saw was on "My Ghost Story" (I'm almost certain it was that series), about a filmmaker who was personally freaked out by shadows that appeared on the wall during his filming -- SHADOWS MADE BY THE ACTORS!! ! :lol:

Because the lights were not aimed directly at the wall at a 90-degree angle, the shadows produced by the actors "looked scary". :lol:

See, I do have a healthy amount of skepticism, precisely because a lot of ghost experiences can be easily faked, simply due to the ethereal/non-material nature of such experiences. I disbelieve about 20-30% of the stories I see on these shows. But some simply are more likely true than not -- unless, of course, you deny on premise such spiritual existence. In which case evidence -- you've already decided -- cannot, and therefore does not, exist. Circular reasoning.

I do believe there are a lot of liars in this world, and some delusionals for sure. But I do not believe that 100% of the people interviewed on these various television series are either lying or delusional.
For instance, do all the people which show the three red scratches on their backs self-inflict these, merely to make their fake story seem real? I suppose one can believe that if one wants to, but I don't. I myself have had such scratches appear spontaneously, behind my right shoulder. Even took a pic of it. None of our pets had the claw span for it, and I know my wife didn't do it.

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Vigilans
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27 Nov 2011, 2:03 pm

The only reality ghost show I have seen is called I think "Ghosthunters" and it involved some guys running around with a shaky camera going "OH MY GOD WHAT WAS THAT!" so that tends to be the reason I find these types of shows funny.

Ragtime wrote:

The biggest fake I ever saw was on "My Ghost Story" (I'm almost certain it was that series), about a filmmaker who was personally freaked out by shadows that appeared on the wall during his filming -- SHADOWS MADE BY THE ACTORS!! ! Because the lights were not aimed directly at the wall at a 90-degree angle, the shadows produced by the actors "looked scary".

reality tv is fantastic!!

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Ragtime
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27 Nov 2011, 2:16 pm

Vigilans wrote:

"Ghost Adventures" comes on every Friday, and they get some pretty serious results -- though I disagree with their method: provocation. That's one show I forgot to mention. It's pretty cool. Ghost Hunters is too lame by comparison to the other shows I mentioned for me to watch. (So is "Ghost Lab".)

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Robdemanc
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27 Nov 2011, 2:20 pm

When you say spiritual what do you mean? The same question can also be asked of the physical. Scientists cannot explain what matter is and only talk of it in terms of energy or force. Spiritual people cannot explain what they mean by spirit but only talk about it in terms of energy/force....

They are about to both meet I think.

Ragtime
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27 Nov 2011, 2:25 pm

Vigilans wrote:

Ragtime wrote:

reality tv is fantastic!!

Here it is:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbuZyOs0WFY[/youtube]

The clip starts immediately with a brief summary, and the actual story begins at 24:53.

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The_Perfect_Storm
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27 Nov 2011, 7:22 pm

Do you have a link to any of the shows that are more likely to be true than to be false? I would like to see them and judge for myself.

Ragtime
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27 Nov 2011, 8:18 pm

The_Perfect_Storm wrote:

Do you have a link to any of the shows that are more likely to be true than to be false? I would like to see them and judge for myself.

Sure, but please, those who could be scared by such clips, beware. Fear of the non-material has no familiar limits to it, and I would consider myself irresponsible if I didn't post a warning first.

There are a lot, but I remember thinking the first story in this episode was pretty convincing:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Egc1E1rgACg[/youtube]

Also, here's a "best moments" clip from Ghost Adventures:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAScd2dZz7U[/youtube]

And here's a creepy morphing shadow, at 12:10:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSOmthBhfok&feature=related[/youtube]

This last one is just a human reaction shot, but I include it because it's pretty powerful. It all comes down to, is this guy (Nick) acting? I don't think he is, and if not, he really did see what he describes.
The whole episode is pretty freaky, but check it out at 34:30. (The big moment is just after 35:00, but it's good to start it a little early to get the feel of the situation and people.)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w1ZrTuPCOIk[/youtube]

This guy's pretty convincing, too. He was living a major nightmare, if he's not making it up.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ty6hw9d0iqI[/youtube]

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NathanealWest
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27 Nov 2011, 8:36 pm

No. Scooby Doo made me a skeptic.

pandabear
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27 Nov 2011, 9:33 pm

Quote:

"DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old.
"Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus.
"Papa says, 'If you see it in THE SUN it's so.'
"Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus?

"VIRGINIA O'HANLON.
"115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET."

VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men's or children's, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You may tear apart the baby's rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

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28 Nov 2011, 12:34 am

The_Perfect_Storm wrote:

No. Common sense.

i'd prefer UNcommon sense

Vexcalibur
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28 Nov 2011, 12:44 am

That DooM level was very hard. Specially in ultra violence.

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MasterJedi
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28 Nov 2011, 10:14 am

try researching stuff that will actually do humankind some benefit.

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28 Nov 2011, 10:32 am

Ragtime wrote:

I believe angels also mimic humans, as the Bible says (Hebrews 13:2), but not to harm or scare, but rather to help and encourage.

"No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord." Deuteronomy 23:1

"Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife, and perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.” Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the LORD; so He took his life also." Genesis 38:8-10

"Now it came about at the lodging place on the way that the LORD met him and sought to put him to death. Then Zipporah took a flint and cut off her son’s foreskin and threw it at Moses’ feet, and she said, “You are indeed a bridegroom of blood to me.”" Exodus 4:24-25

"Yet she increased her prostitution, remembering the days of her youth when she engaged in prostitution in the land of Egypt. She lusted after their genitals as large as those of donkeys, and their seminal emission was as strong as that of stallions." Ezekiel 23:19-20

"If two men, a man and his countryman, are struggling together, and the wife of one comes near to deliver her husband from the hand of the one who is striking him, and puts out her hand and seizes his genitals, then you shall cut off her hand; you shall not show pity." Deuteronomy 25:11-12

The Bible: a continuous source of reliable source of information for 2,000 years.

Fnord
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28 Nov 2011, 10:56 am

"Ghost" =\= "Reality"

There is no valid material evidence to support any belief or claim in a "Spirit World" other than "It does not exist".

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28 Nov 2011, 11:02 am

Nothing I have ever seen, read or heard indicates that ghosts or any kind of "spirit world" exist, so I have no reason to believe that they do.

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Ragtime
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28 Nov 2011, 11:32 am

Fnord wrote:

"Ghost" =\= "Reality"

There is no valid material evidence to support any belief or claim in a "Spirit World" other than "It does not exist".

"Material evidence" of a spirit -- isn't that something which by definition could not occur?
To put it another way, could spirits exist as far as a strict materialist is concerned? No, because the materialist's belief system cannot deal with the concept. So the materialist is content to believe spirits do not exist -- and, therefore, they do not exist. Sort of a self-imposed mind trick.

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