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puddingmouse
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13 Mar 2012, 9:57 pm

I was having this discussion with my partner after someone from EDL tried to burn in and succeeded in ripping it up a bit.

We both agreed that it was okay to burn the Qur'an if it's cold and you have no other source of fuel. My partner maintained that it was immoral to burn the Qur'an in order to offend Muslims. His reasoning was thus:
1. The Qur'an is a symbol of the Islamic faith and burning the Qur'an is no different to burning a mosque or a church.
2. Whilst Muslims don't have a right not to be offended, their religious teachers state that they must react violently to such an offence. Since the Qur'an-burner has no way of knowing where that violence will be perpetrated and could hurt innocent people, then it is an immoral act to burn the Qur'an.

I think it's stupid to burn the Qur'an, but not immoral. I think for point 2, the moral onus is on the Muslims, they can't argue that they are simply following their religion's orders by overreacting to offence. For number one, my argument is that it is immoral to burn down a Qur'an because the building has utility, as well as symbolism. In that sense, burning a Qur'an purely to cause offence is wrong because it's a waste of paper. I then asked my boyfriend if it was immoral to recycle a Qur'an. He said that he wouldn't want me to try it.

What do you think about this?


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Last edited by puddingmouse on 13 Mar 2012, 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

TeaEarlGreyHot
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13 Mar 2012, 10:02 pm

No more wrong than burning a Bible or any other book.

Makes me sad, though, and it's quite stupid.


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fraac
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13 Mar 2012, 10:03 pm

I think that burning a Qu'ran to cause offence appears to be very efficient. The ones who get offended give the act power.



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13 Mar 2012, 10:04 pm

No, I wouldn't say so


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puddingmouse
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13 Mar 2012, 10:05 pm

It's one of those things that cross over from criticising ideas to criticising the person, since the believer identifies so closely with the book. For that reason, it would be even worse to burn the Guru Granth Sahib.


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Tequila
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13 Mar 2012, 10:07 pm

Is it immoral? No.
Is it not a particularly educated way of making a point? Yes.
Is it chavvy? Yes.
Should it be illegal? NEVER!



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13 Mar 2012, 10:07 pm

fraac wrote:
The ones who get offended give the act power.


I'd love to post a YouTube vid of someone doing just that but that's probably against the rules.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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13 Mar 2012, 10:09 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
It's one of those things that cross over from criticising ideas to criticising the person, since the believer identifies so closely with the book. For that reason, it would be even worse to burn the Guru Granth Sahib.


Those that use it specifically to offend are looking for the reaction. They're counting on the blurred line between action and self.

I'm not one to tread lightly for one group and not another. No religion is above reproach.


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puddingmouse
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13 Mar 2012, 10:11 pm

Tequila wrote:
Is it chavvy? Yes.


:lol:

I don't think it should be illegal, either - because despite what my partner says, it's simply not the same as burning down a religious building or desecrating a grave. I'm trying to come up with a reasonable argument why it isn't, though.


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puddingmouse
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13 Mar 2012, 10:12 pm

Tequila wrote:
fraac wrote:
The ones who get offended give the act power.


I'd love to post a YouTube vid of someone doing just that but that's probably against the rules.


Yes it is.


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13 Mar 2012, 10:12 pm

Aw, I have my answer.

It's the thought that counts.



TeaEarlGreyHot
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13 Mar 2012, 10:14 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Is it chavvy? Yes.


:lol:

I don't think it should be illegal, either - because despite what my partner says, it's simply not the same as burning down a religious building or desecrating a grave. I'm trying to come up with a reasonable argument why it isn't, though.


Burning down a building is hazardous to the land/buildings surrounding it. Desecrating graves destroys someone else's property as the gravesite is on land owned by another.

A book is a book is a book. As long as it belongs to the person burning it, they aren't violating anyone else's well-being or property.


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puddingmouse
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13 Mar 2012, 10:14 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
It's one of those things that cross over from criticising ideas to criticising the person, since the believer identifies so closely with the book. For that reason, it would be even worse to burn the Guru Granth Sahib.


Those that use it specifically to offend are looking for the reaction. They're counting on the blurred line between action and self.

I'm not one to tread lightly for one group and not another. No religion is above reproach.


I agree, but the Guru Granth Sahib is seen as literally a guru. It's a bit like pissing on the eucharist.

I guess that still falls into the camp of 'stupid rather than immoral'.


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Tequila
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13 Mar 2012, 10:16 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
I guess that still falls into the camp of 'stupid rather than immoral'.


In the same way as someone in the UK burning our flag is stupid rather than immoral?

Can we not celebrate said stupidity?

Is there anything we're allowed to burn on here? I'm feeling in a destructive mood all of a sudden. ;)



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13 Mar 2012, 10:16 pm

puddingmouse wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
It's one of those things that cross over from criticising ideas to criticising the person, since the believer identifies so closely with the book. For that reason, it would be even worse to burn the Guru Granth Sahib.


Those that use it specifically to offend are looking for the reaction. They're counting on the blurred line between action and self.

I'm not one to tread lightly for one group and not another. No religion is above reproach.


I agree, but the Guru Granth Sahib is seen as literally a guru. It's a bit like pissing on the eucharist.

I guess that still falls into the camp of 'stupid rather than immoral'.


Correct. Nobody can expect anyone else to treat their views as if they were theirs as well.


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puddingmouse
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13 Mar 2012, 10:17 pm

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
puddingmouse wrote:
Tequila wrote:
Is it chavvy? Yes.


:lol:

I don't think it should be illegal, either - because despite what my partner says, it's simply not the same as burning down a religious building or desecrating a grave. I'm trying to come up with a reasonable argument why it isn't, though.


Burning down a building is hazardous to the land/buildings surrounding it. Desecrating graves destroys someone else's property as the gravesite is on land owned by another.

A book is a book is a book. As long as it belongs to the person burning it, they aren't violating anyone else's well-being or property.


I think with my boyfriend being Jewish, he understandably has a low tolerance for anything on the spectrum of book burning/building burning/desecration. It's all the same to him.


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