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Pyrite
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02 Apr 2012, 10:45 am

Just in case any of you guys skipped the article to resume the long-running debate, here's my favorite part of the author's methodology:

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We analyzed self-reports of religious beliefs that appeared in postings on the wrongplanet.net website.


Apparently the WP atheists and agnostics have fans. The world is watching! (sort of)



MjrMajorMajor
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02 Apr 2012, 1:52 pm

NewlyHuman wrote:


I badly wanted to believe in God when I was a child, as everyone seemed to and I thought I must be a very wicked person not to, but I couldn't get past that I found it too illogical.



I can see the draw and comfort of organized religion, but I just can't buy into it personally. Some may look to religion for moral guidance, but Aesop's Fables can offer some of the same. I haven't looked into the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali yet, but it is on my to do list.
I did have a child-like faith in Christianity until I hit my teens. I started questioning why during a particularly rough time, and could not hold on to any logical reason to continue. I firmly believe in "question everything", but I do envy others that anchor of certainty-- misguided or not.



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02 Apr 2012, 5:25 pm

MjrMajorMajor wrote:
NewlyHuman wrote:


I badly wanted to believe in God when I was a child, as everyone seemed to and I thought I must be a very wicked person not to, but I couldn't get past that I found it too illogical.



I can see the draw and comfort of organized religion, but I just can't buy into it personally. Some may look to religion for moral guidance, but Aesop's Fables can offer some of the same. I haven't looked into the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali yet, but it is on my to do list.
I did have a child-like faith in Christianity until I hit my teens. I started questioning why during a particularly rough time, and could not hold on to any logical reason to continue. I firmly believe in "question everything", but I do envy others that anchor of certainty-- misguided or not.


There's nothing that says Christians can't doubt. There have been plenty of times in my life when I've struggled with doubt. Sometimes faith requires to struggle in order to survive.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



ValentineWiggin
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02 Apr 2012, 5:51 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
MjrMajorMajor wrote:
NewlyHuman wrote:


I badly wanted to believe in God when I was a child, as everyone seemed to and I thought I must be a very wicked person not to, but I couldn't get past that I found it too illogical.



I can see the draw and comfort of organized religion, but I just can't buy into it personally. Some may look to religion for moral guidance, but Aesop's Fables can offer some of the same. I haven't looked into the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali yet, but it is on my to do list.
I did have a child-like faith in Christianity until I hit my teens. I started questioning why during a particularly rough time, and could not hold on to any logical reason to continue. I firmly believe in "question everything", but I do envy others that anchor of certainty-- misguided or not.


There's nothing that says Christians can't doubt. There have been plenty of times in my life when I've struggled with doubt. Sometimes faith requires to struggle in order to survive.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The difference is that some people don't "struggle" with their doubt- they embrace it fully, and delve into the reasons for feeling it, and often their beliefs change as a result.


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Kraichgauer
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02 Apr 2012, 8:23 pm

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
MjrMajorMajor wrote:
NewlyHuman wrote:


I badly wanted to believe in God when I was a child, as everyone seemed to and I thought I must be a very wicked person not to, but I couldn't get past that I found it too illogical.



I can see the draw and comfort of organized religion, but I just can't buy into it personally. Some may look to religion for moral guidance, but Aesop's Fables can offer some of the same. I haven't looked into the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali yet, but it is on my to do list.
I did have a child-like faith in Christianity until I hit my teens. I started questioning why during a particularly rough time, and could not hold on to any logical reason to continue. I firmly believe in "question everything", but I do envy others that anchor of certainty-- misguided or not.


There's nothing that says Christians can't doubt. There have been plenty of times in my life when I've struggled with doubt. Sometimes faith requires to struggle in order to survive.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


The difference is that some people don't "struggle" with their doubt- they embrace it fully, and delve into the reasons for feeling it, and often their beliefs change as a result.


Believe it or not, I actually have no problem with that.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



androbot2084
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02 Apr 2012, 8:38 pm

the problem with me being autistic is that Christians may be able to understand why I may be a liberal but most Christians can't in a million years understand why I am a communist. Christians say I have a demon inside of me.



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02 Apr 2012, 8:55 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
the problem with me being autistic is that Christians may be able to understand why I may be a liberal but most Christians can't in a million years understand why I am a communist. Christians say I have a demon inside of me.


DEMON!
No, seriously, I'm not about to accuse you of being demonically possessed - as I don't believe in such a thing in the first place. In Latin America, communists can be - and are - devout Christians, as they see a definite parallel between Christ's teachings, and those of Marx.
If I may ask, what sort of denominations do these "Christians" belong to? I have never heard this sort of idiocy being spewed by mainline denominations.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



androbot2084
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02 Apr 2012, 9:19 pm

According to most evangelical denominations a prosperity gospel is preached. That is that if you pay your tithes God will bless you with superabundance. However these churches have rejected the concept of wealth redistribution according to one's needs which is clearly taught in the Book of Acts. Instead the churches claim that one must depend on God to provide wealth and not depend on people. If that were the case why did the early Church hold all property in common with no one considering any property their own? They don't have an answer to my questions so they say that I have a Demon inside of me that must be cast out.



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02 Apr 2012, 9:42 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
According to most evangelical denominations a prosperity gospel is preached. That is that if you pay your tithes God will bless you with superabundance. However these churches have rejected the concept of wealth redistribution according to one's needs which is clearly taught in the Book of Acts. Instead the churches claim that one must depend on God to provide wealth and not depend on people. If that were the case why did the early Church hold all property in common with no one considering any property their own? They don't have an answer to my questions so they say that I have a Demon inside of me that must be cast out.


Errrrr! I suspected you had had experiences with evangelicals; particularly those preaching a prosperity gospel.
Trust me, I seriously doubt that you'd get much of that - if any - among mainline denominations.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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03 Apr 2012, 5:07 am

iceveela wrote:
I found an article that said that aspies are more likely to be agnostic and atheist than NT's.

http://www.scienceandreligiontoday.com/ ... agnostics/

What do you think?


A hyperlogical Aspie could conceivably fall for the Argument by Design which is the only argument for the existence of a Creator that has the least resemblence to logic and reason. It is an invalid argument, but it is not utter nonsense. No logical person could really take any of the current major religions seriously. They are fairy tales, just-so stories and fiction. They may have a social or political use but they do not hold up logically.

ruveyn



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03 Apr 2012, 6:44 am

ruveyn wrote:
iceveela wrote:
I found an article that said that aspies are more likely to be agnostic and atheist than NT's.

http://www.scienceandreligiontoday.com/ ... agnostics/

What do you think?


A hyperlogical Aspie could conceivably fall for the Argument by Design which is the only argument for the existence of a Creator that has the least resemblence to logic and reason. It is an invalid argument, but it is not utter nonsense. No logical person could really take any of the current major religions seriously. They are fairy tales, just-so stories and fiction. They may have a social or political use but they do not hold up logically.

ruveyn


There is also the prime mover god entity, that holds up semi well to logical scrutiny. Some random fringe concepts as well that are not widely believed. But most interesting to me is that the more logical and rational the god belief is, the less impact it has in the understanding of every day life, ie the world we live in. Or so it seems in my experience.

But you are quite right Ruv, there are a number of aspies who are hyperlogical, and that tends to steer them away from many of the mainline belief systems.


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03 Apr 2012, 8:17 am

androbot2084 wrote:
According to most evangelical denominations a prosperity gospel is preached. That is that if you pay your tithes God will bless you with superabundance. However these churches have rejected the concept of wealth redistribution according to one's needs which is clearly taught in the Book of Acts. Instead the churches claim that one must depend on God to provide wealth and not depend on people. If that were the case why did the early Church hold all property in common with no one considering any property their own? They don't have an answer to my questions so they say that I have a Demon inside of me that must be cast out.


The demon they say you have inside of you is an allegory. What if the religious didn't believe in god as a deity either? What would all of that mean?



Kraichgauer
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03 Apr 2012, 12:26 pm

webcam wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
According to most evangelical denominations a prosperity gospel is preached. That is that if you pay your tithes God will bless you with superabundance. However these churches have rejected the concept of wealth redistribution according to one's needs which is clearly taught in the Book of Acts. Instead the churches claim that one must depend on God to provide wealth and not depend on people. If that were the case why did the early Church hold all property in common with no one considering any property their own? They don't have an answer to my questions so they say that I have a Demon inside of me that must be cast out.


The demon they say you have inside of you is an allegory. What if the religious didn't believe in god as a deity either? What would all of that mean?


Knowing evangelicals, they're probably quite literal in believing that androbot is possessed. They actually believe in such things.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



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03 Apr 2012, 12:43 pm

I definitely think we would be more prone to atheism. After all, there isn't really any way to prove any religion is true. I don't follow any religion, but I find taoism's philosophies very true. That does not make me religious, just able to accept another philosophical viewpoint...which raises the question why those with religion can't generally.

The symbolism would also likely be lost on us. I always liked the understandable poetics of Socrates and Plato over the messes that are religious texts...they seem to love using vague and spooky language to obscure reason.

We also think very critically. Most faiths depise that. Faith, by definition, is blind obediance, something we never (or almost never) do.

However, some psychological research has shown that those with faith live longer and are elss prone to mental health issues. I think we just don't diagnose some religious lunatics as "disabled" though, we just call them "gifted." :lol:

Overall I will always be an atheist. This is because I was forced into Christianity as a child, but later saw how hypocritical Christians are in politics. And since religion is the opiate of the masses, it dsturbed me greatly. I didn't want to be like that so I made my own philosophy. Religion is for those that aren't ready to do that.

I know I diverged from the original question, but I had some insights in writing this.


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03 Apr 2012, 1:00 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:

Knowing evangelicals, they're probably quite literal in believing that androbot is possessed. They actually believe in such things.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And they worship the same hypothetical deity as you. Does this ever give you pause?

ruveyn



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03 Apr 2012, 1:14 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:

Knowing evangelicals, they're probably quite literal in believing that androbot is possessed. They actually believe in such things.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


And they worship the same hypothetical deity as you. Does this ever give you pause?

ruveyn


Not really, because I'm doing it right. :lol:

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer