Why do the religious and non religious care what the other b

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Joker
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01 Apr 2012, 1:28 pm

TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
TM wrote:
Because religious people keep trying to force other people to live in accordance with their belief.


Jews don't do that. In fact most rabbis try to discourage people who would convert to Judaism and there is not such thing as Jewish evangelism. Jews do not try to go out and convert people.

ruveyn


In my experience, most Jews are highly secular and engage in their religion not due to faith but due to culture.


That's pretty much how I am as well their are secular christians I engage in my religion because of my faith and culture.


Jews do it as an activity not related to faith.


I know that I have Jewish friends I do it out of faith and culture it goes back to my german roots.



TM
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01 Apr 2012, 1:34 pm

Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
TM wrote:
Because religious people keep trying to force other people to live in accordance with their belief.


Jews don't do that. In fact most rabbis try to discourage people who would convert to Judaism and there is not such thing as Jewish evangelism. Jews do not try to go out and convert people.

ruveyn


In my experience, most Jews are highly secular and engage in their religion not due to faith but due to culture.


That's pretty much how I am as well their are secular christians I engage in my religion because of my faith and culture.


Jews do it as an activity not related to faith.


I know that I have Jewish friends I do it out of faith and culture it goes back to my german roots.


As long as religious people threat their religion in the same way that I treat my penis, then its fine. IE, it's fine to have one, it's fine to be proud of it, but don't wave it around in public or in front of children.



Joker
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01 Apr 2012, 1:38 pm

TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
TM wrote:
Because religious people keep trying to force other people to live in accordance with their belief.


Jews don't do that. In fact most rabbis try to discourage people who would convert to Judaism and there is not such thing as Jewish evangelism. Jews do not try to go out and convert people.

ruveyn


In my experience, most Jews are highly secular and engage in their religion not due to faith but due to culture.


That's pretty much how I am as well their are secular christians I engage in my religion because of my faith and culture.


Jews do it as an activity not related to faith.


I know that I have Jewish friends I do it out of faith and culture it goes back to my german roots.


As long as religious people threat their religion in the same way that I treat my penis, then its fine. IE, it's fine to have one, it's fine to be proud of it, but don't wave it around in public or in front of children.


Same here religion is something that should just be in your private life and out of the public eyes when people are in your face about it you become preachy some I can't stand about fundies.



Rocky
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01 Apr 2012, 2:50 pm

TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
TM wrote:
Because religious people keep trying to force other people to live in accordance with their belief.


Jews don't do that. In fact most rabbis try to discourage people who would convert to Judaism and there is not such thing as Jewish evangelism. Jews do not try to go out and convert people.

ruveyn


In my experience, most Jews are highly secular and engage in their religion not due to faith but due to culture.


That's pretty much how I am as well their are secular christians I engage in my religion because of my faith and culture.


Jews do it as an activity not related to faith.


I know that I have Jewish friends I do it out of faith and culture it goes back to my german roots.


As long as religious people threat their religion in the same way that I treat my penis, then its fine. IE, it's fine to have one, it's fine to be proud of it, but don't wave it around in public or in front of children.


I would agree with this last post except for the fact that in a democracy, beliefs based on faith and dogma also affect voting and public policy. This effect is not always visible directly. Why block stem cell research? Why block Gay marriage? etc? etc? Faith and dogma.



Joker
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01 Apr 2012, 2:55 pm

Rocky wrote:
TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
TM wrote:
Because religious people keep trying to force other people to live in accordance with their belief.


Jews don't do that. In fact most rabbis try to discourage people who would convert to Judaism and there is not such thing as Jewish evangelism. Jews do not try to go out and convert people.

ruveyn


In my experience, most Jews are highly secular and engage in their religion not due to faith but due to culture.


That's pretty much how I am as well their are secular christians I engage in my religion because of my faith and culture.


Jews do it as an activity not related to faith.


I know that I have Jewish friends I do it out of faith and culture it goes back to my german roots.


As long as religious people threat their religion in the same way that I treat my penis, then its fine. IE, it's fine to have one, it's fine to be proud of it, but don't wave it around in public or in front of children.


I would agree with this last post except for the fact that in a democracy, beliefs based on faith and dogma also affect voting and public policy. This effect is not always visible directly. Why block stem cell research? Why block Gay marriage? etc? etc? Faith and dogma.


I am for stem cell research and gay marriage you can't hate love.



TM
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01 Apr 2012, 2:59 pm

Rocky wrote:
I would agree with this last post except for the fact that in a democracy, beliefs based on faith and dogma also affect voting and public policy. This effect is not always visible directly. Why block stem cell research? Why block Gay marriage? etc? etc? Faith and dogma.


I agree, but there are many other opinions and beliefs that also affect voting. I'm against a full on democracy, I tend to favor a form of meritocracy where you have to show a certain knowledge about politics, public policy and so on in order to vote. If there are gun laws, there should be a law against giving Rick Santorum or Sarah Palin the nuclear launch codes.

I'd be inclined to say that people who support communism or hard-line socialism should be banned from voting because they are obviously out of their mind in the same degree as Christians. However, Gay marriage is not something that the government needs to be doing, neither is blocking stem cell research.

There are places where government should be such as:

- Protecting the environment through legislation that ensures that future generations will be able to breathe something other than smog.
- Infrastructure
- A degree of property regulation, such as preventing the construction of industry harmful to humans in the middle of cities.
- Law enforcement and a legal system.
- Military.
- Taxes to pay for the above within reason.

There are other places where it shouldn't be:
- Legislating taste.
- In people's bedrooms.

The sooner people get this the better it is.



Joker
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01 Apr 2012, 3:01 pm

I like all those things aspie would make good leaders of a country.



Rocky
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01 Apr 2012, 3:22 pm

Joker wrote:
I like all those things aspie would make good leaders of a country.


I would like to be able to vote for a candidate who publicly announces that he favors reason instead of faith. In other words, an atheist. In the US, currently, such a candidate could not be elected president. Fundies (like GW Bush) already have been.



Joker
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01 Apr 2012, 3:25 pm

Rocky wrote:
Joker wrote:
I like all those things aspie would make good leaders of a country.


I would like to be able to vote for a candidate who publicly announces that he favors reason instead of faith. In other words, an atheist. In the US, currently, such a candidate could not be elected president. Fundies (like GW Bush) already have.


Fundies are the court jesters of the religious community I would be open to having atheist as president but sadly that will not happen all though their are some people who think Abraham Lincoln was a athesit.



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01 Apr 2012, 3:39 pm

People generally want people to believe what they believe. Some people are mature enough to ignore that desire. Some people can't handle it and become militant about their beliefs. These people sometimes end up speaking for their beliefs and make their side look like assholes. And every side has these people. Some people can't handle the fact that people are different.



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01 Apr 2012, 3:42 pm

AdjustedSanity wrote:
People generally want people to believe what they believe. Some people are mature enough to ignore that desire. Some people can't handle it and become militant about their beliefs. These people sometimes end up speaking for their beliefs and make their side look like assholes. And every side has these people. Some people can't handle the fact that people are different.


ValentineWiggin think's her side has no assholes for some reason :lol: at least I can say mine has plenty of them.



TM
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01 Apr 2012, 3:56 pm

Rocky wrote:
Joker wrote:
I like all those things aspie would make good leaders of a country.


I would like to be able to vote for a candidate who publicly announces that he favors reason instead of faith. In other words, an atheist. In the US, currently, such a candidate could not be elected president. Fundies (like GW Bush) already have been.


I think you'd be surprised. I think a person with the "right" qualities could be elected on the basis that there are a lot more atheists than you think and there are probably quite a few "Sunday-Catholics" and other lapsed people who'd vote policy over faith. I have to believe that, otherwise I might as well just walk around a dark street in Florida wearing a hoodie and carrying skittles.



Rocky
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01 Apr 2012, 4:25 pm

AdjustedSanity wrote:
People generally want people to believe what they believe. Some people are mature enough to ignore that desire. Some people can't handle it and become militant about their beliefs. These people sometimes end up speaking for their beliefs and make their side look like assholes. And every side has these people. Some people can't handle the fact that people are different.


I suspect you wouldn't say that if you lived in a country that was dominated by fundamentalist Islamists. The relatively moderate religious influence here in the west is easier to ignore, but it still affects public policy. In a democracy, convincing others to vote a certain way is part of the process. Some would even say it is the duty of all citizens.



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01 Apr 2012, 4:30 pm

TM wrote:
Rocky wrote:
Joker wrote:
I like all those things aspie would make good leaders of a country.


I would like to be able to vote for a candidate who publicly announces that he favors reason instead of faith. In other words, an atheist. In the US, currently, such a candidate could not be elected president. Fundies (like GW Bush) already have been.


I think you'd be surprised. I think a person with the "right" qualities could be elected on the basis that there are a lot more atheists than you think and there are probably quite a few "Sunday-Catholics" and other lapsed people who'd vote policy over faith. I have to believe that, otherwise I might as well just walk around a dark street in Florida wearing a hoodie and carrying skittles.


I wouldn't be surprised if president Obama turned out to be a non-believer. I don't blame him for keeping that to himself.

I think it is only a matter of time before a presidential candidate will be elected as a public non-believer.



TM
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01 Apr 2012, 4:39 pm

Rocky wrote:
TM wrote:
Rocky wrote:
Joker wrote:
I like all those things aspie would make good leaders of a country.


I would like to be able to vote for a candidate who publicly announces that he favors reason instead of faith. In other words, an atheist. In the US, currently, such a candidate could not be elected president. Fundies (like GW Bush) already have been.


I think you'd be surprised. I think a person with the "right" qualities could be elected on the basis that there are a lot more atheists than you think and there are probably quite a few "Sunday-Catholics" and other lapsed people who'd vote policy over faith. I have to believe that, otherwise I might as well just walk around a dark street in Florida wearing a hoodie and carrying skittles.


I wouldn't be surprised if president Obama turned out to be a non-believer. I don't blame him for keeping that to himself.

I think it is only a matter of time before a presidential candidate will be elected as a public non-believer.


I'm fairly sure Al Gore was, but then he makes Mitt Romney look like James Dean.



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01 Apr 2012, 4:47 pm

Post-purchase rationalisation.


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