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Scintillate
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25 Nov 2006, 12:47 pm

I used bad wording.

I meant they're opposite sides an equation....


ie:

a certain amount of space, or space travelled, or the space between two points EQUALS a certain amount of time, or a certain time limit etc..

Knowing these two we can pinpoint the speed, displacement etc.

I said this:

"Is because every moment of time, is simply motion in space."

You said this:

"The link between space and time is that since all abjects are moving, you can't describe an objects dimentions (X,Y,Z) without also describing WHEN they existed within those dimentions. "

I was using a "moment in time" to actually describe the ability to pinpoint an objects..
You'll find I was just using the opposite angle.

I'm definately not saying motion is impossible, I'm saying everything that exists is in motion, that is a given, I'm also saying time is simply the quantification or ordering of our measurements, a way to relate it to space and how objects move.


"Obviously, if a space dimention is cut in half, time is cut in half as well. They exist on OPPOSITE sides of the equation not the same side."

I'm simply pointing out that time is a measurement, not a physical reality, yes the limits we've imposed exist..

However, it is real, and without the time, space between two points, the speed, and the motion would all be unmeasurable.

I'm not saying space IS time (though I used that sentence)

I was actually trying to say that time itself, is really just a motion in space, between 2 points, graphed against all that we've recorded and all that we can see...

Meaning time is a different measurement of the same thing...


Say you have two cars, one gets too its destination quicker than the other.

To determine which is faster, you would need the distance, and the time, however if you had the distance of BOTH, you could determine which is faster without any relation to time.

Sorry its late, I've explained myself badly again..

I'll conclude it here...

If we have something we can class as uniform motion (ie: light) we use this as our objective viewpoint, and set two "events" as the two to relate to each other....

What happens when time = 0 or close to 0? Is this possible? Is this why on a quantum level things seem to work in probabilistic ways? Because time and space are so close to 0 that the resulting motion is instantaneous?


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Revenant
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02 Dec 2006, 1:11 pm

Aging is a good example.

It doesn't happen because time dictates the body to age, but the body is getting "used up" and thats why someone who lives a harsh life ages faster than others.

Time is a very advanced and difficult subject to discuss since it is so abstract. What should be considered "man made" can be discussed for ages...



PenitentSpark
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02 Dec 2006, 10:31 pm

dgd1788 wrote:
Kosmonaut wrote:
What do you mean by mathematics is a 'man made tool' ?


Life was not created by mathematics.

I'll share my own quote:

"I am not against mathematics, I am against those who say that is vital"

Humanity created mathematics just as they created time.

Mathematics was created by humanity, but as a representation of reality. We made the representation, but the reality is there, and always has been there.

Time is real. If you were to say that it is just an idea, and that all that matters is what exists now - how do you explain the effects on time that the Theory of Relativity has? (FYI, the effects on time have been proven in experiments)
IE, if you have two atomic clocks, and you send one on a rocket on orbit around the earth for a while, and then land it and bring it back to the other one, the one that went into space will have slightly more/less time recorded on it (can't remember which).



troymclure
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07 Dec 2006, 1:05 pm

PenitentSpark wrote:
IE, if you have two atomic clocks, and you send one on a rocket on orbit around the earth for a while, and then land it and bring it back to the other one, the one that went into space will have slightly more/less time recorded on it (can't remember which).


I always wondered about that. What's the effecet of the speed of the world on that time dilation thing? I mean, our sun is moving through space, and the earth is moving around the sun. Does that speed affect time dilation as well? Would time be different on mercury as well?



Corvus
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07 Dec 2006, 1:26 pm

Theres no future, no present, I dont even know about the past - Ozzy

Seriously, the only thing that exists in time is 'NOW' and any change that occurs "over time" is simply change and has little to do with time, it just happens over the course of infinite 'nows.' Time didnt break the glass jar, my fist did by slamming it down. The time it happened was during the 'constant' now. The future hasnt happened yet (and therefore does not exist) and the past HAPPENED but no longer exists

Time didnt make the waterfall wear down the rocks, the water did - time was just a word to describe the constant 'now' that it was happening in. Time only exists when measuring the 'before the rocks were worn down' to 'after the rocks were worn down' and the amount of 'constant now' that it took to do so.



MrMark
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07 Dec 2006, 7:20 pm

Asking "Does time exist?" is like asking "Does motion exist?" or "Does space exist?"

Nevertheless, "here" and "now" are what we have to work with.


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Quickduck
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08 Dec 2006, 4:58 am

Well the perception of time exist.

A watch,
Time passing,
As I watch.

But is our perception of time merely our perception of change (things changing).

And it seems to me that our perception of things changing can vary dependant on circumstance.

For example:
It's been said that 'a watched pot never boils'
I've found that if I fill two pots and watch them boil instead of one time seems to pass more quickly.

Probably because of my excitement and expectation about which pot is going to boil first.



dgd1788
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08 Dec 2006, 1:16 pm

Quickduck wrote:
I've found that if I fill two pots and watch them boil instead of one time seems to pass more quickly.


That is very interesting, but what if a person is unable to perceive time? Such as a drug user or someone with a neurological disorder.

If time existed, then it would be so concrete that everyone would be aware of it. Unfortunately: not everyone is aware of this.


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Gremlin
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12 Dec 2006, 2:24 pm

Time does not exist.

Time occurs.


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Rory
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16 Dec 2006, 4:17 am

Gremlin wrote:
Time does not exist.

Time occurs.


Better still: time occurs to me (or you, or someone). For those to whom it occurs, it exists. For others, not so.



PenitentSpark
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16 Dec 2006, 4:35 am

dgd1788 wrote:
Quickduck wrote:
I've found that if I fill two pots and watch them boil instead of one time seems to pass more quickly.


That is very interesting, but what if a person is unable to perceive time? Such as a drug user or someone with a neurological disorder.

If time existed, then it would be so concrete that everyone would be aware of it. Unfortunately: not everyone is aware of this.

There are many things that do and may exist without everyone noticing.
Someone might not look in the right direction, or have the mental capacity to comprehend something.

Just because the average person isn't aware of the complex microscopic electrical interactions inside a computer exist, doesn't mean that they don't exist. Or a druggatic might not be aware of his problems, or a little kid might not be aware of the dog poop inches under his foot as he steps forward.



dimensionaltraveler
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17 Dec 2006, 11:30 pm

You probably a member of the Flat Earth Society if you think time does not exist. We all exist in time. Everything in this universe,there is a starting point(birth) , life ,a ending point(death).This is called linear time. Every thing in in this universe(from galaxies and stars to even the Earth itself) goes through this process. You can bend and twist time by the use of gravity because gravity is the chief fundemental force in the universe.

The Fundemental Forces of the Universe in case people have forgotten them are:
1.Gravitational
2.Electromangetism
3.Nuclear "weak"
4.Nuclear "strong"




Every reputable physicist(Einstein,Newton,Thorne,and Hawking) believes in the concept to "time".



Suggestions read "Universe in a Nutshell" by Stephen Hawking(who happens to hold the same academic honors at Cambridge University Sir Isaac Newton held).



dimensionaltraveler
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dgd1788
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18 Dec 2006, 1:44 am

dimensionaltraveler wrote:
You probably a member of the Flat Earth Society if you think time does not exist. We all exist in time. Everything in this universe,there is a starting point(birth) , life ,a ending point(death).This is called linear time. Every thing in in this universe(from galaxies and stars to even the Earth itself) goes through this process. You can bend and twist time by the use of gravity because gravity is the chief fundemental force in the universe.

The Fundemental Forces of the Universe in case people have forgotten them are:
1.Gravitational
2.Electromangetism
3.Nuclear "weak"
4.Nuclear "strong"




Every reputable physicist(Einstein,Newton,Thorne,and Hawking) believes in the concept to "time".



Suggestions read "Universe in a Nutshell" by Stephen Hawking(who happens to hold the same academic honors at Cambridge University Sir Isaac Newton held).


I don't want any suggestions, and the earth isn't flat!


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Rory
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18 Dec 2006, 4:22 am

dimensionaltraveler wrote:
You probably a member of the Flat Earth Society if you think time does not exist. We all exist in time. Everything in this universe,there is a starting point(birth) , life ,a ending point(death).This is called linear time. Every thing in in this universe(from galaxies and stars to even the Earth itself) goes through this process. You can bend and twist time by the use of gravity because gravity is the chief fundemental force in the universe.

The Fundemental Forces of the Universe in case people have forgotten them are:
1.Gravitational
2.Electromangetism
3.Nuclear "weak"
4.Nuclear "strong"




Every reputable physicist(Einstein,Newton,Thorne,and Hawking) believes in the concept to "time".



Suggestions read "Universe in a Nutshell" by Stephen Hawking(who happens to hold the same academic honors at Cambridge University Sir Isaac Newton held).


Here's another suggestion: read a bit of elementary philosophy and you will discover it's not so straightforward as you think.

And believing in the concept of time is not the same as believing time exists, it's just believing the concept is useful. Starting points and ending points are not time, for they are just points.

The way I see it, space and time are not things but a conceptual framework within which we are able to understand things within the limits of the human mind. Things exist in space and time. But space and time can't themselves exist within space and time, and so they don't exist as things as other entities do.



Mirror
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18 Dec 2006, 4:47 am

What about the subatomic world? Time is not the same in the sub atomic world as it is in the 'view able' world (what ever word is used to discribe the opposite to a sub atomic world...Reality? I don't know i'm lazy :P)

We all have studied, mesured, and used the tool of time in concerns to gravity and traveled information, but in the sub atomic world time seems to not exist becuase informations is traveled instatenitasly threw the particals because the particals in its self is one huge connected thing. Like a brain (well not nearly like a brain because enen thinking from one thought to another creates a small, oh so tiny, pico/gazilianth second of no thought going on or fireing off or what not.) That is according to quantim physics. So the same rules of time that applys to our visible world are not bounded by the atom. If the atom makes up everything shouldn't it also obey the laws of time?

But then again the sub atomic world truly has no static mass when it comes right down to it. It seems to only exists because we think it exists. So in that thinking are mind is the only thing that creates our world around us.

Man is the tool in which to mesure his world.

We view time and everything around us from our point of view. Allways have and allways will. And in that lies the rub.


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