Page 2 of 9 [ 140 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 9  Next

TM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

01 May 2012, 2:24 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
TM wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
TM wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
foxfield wrote:
It is a common stereotype that men are capable of more intellectual depth than women. For this reason I believe that cultural works produced by men are more likely to be viewed as serious and important and those produced by women are more likely to be dismissed as enjoyable yet trivial.

If you want an example of how deeply predjudiced people are about gender, I remember reading about a study in which people graded an exam. They found that the same exam tended to be graded lower when it had a girls name at the top rather than a boys name.


It's been scientifically proven that men are better at calculus math and physics than women. On the other hand, women are usually better at language skills and remembering formulas than men.


There are also a few studies that indicate that men are smarter than women on average, but I'm sure the studies will be claimed to be dodgy or ordered by the patriarchy. It's the funny thing about 3rd party sources, people tend to credit their own more than those of others.

http://www.livescience.com/7154-men-sma ... laims.html
http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=2357
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... ter-people


I only looked at one and basically all it confimed is some men are smarter than women, some women are smarter then men and vice versa. There is no way to prove all men are smarter than all women even if it were true. But anyways genders aren't even so black and white as they were once thought to be. Meaning one could be female with a male brain, or male with a female brain or there could even just be bits of both genders in the brain...so I guess ones sexual organs still does not determine their intelligence.


That's not the argument I was making. Saying that all men are smarter than all women or vice versa is stupid. What they do confirm is that men as a whole are smarter than women as a whole using the characteristics in those studies.

Your last part about "it could be a female with a male brain" etc is just silly, your genitals do not decide your intelligence, however they are indicative of certain things unless you subscribe to the rather absurd notion that "the genders are equal in all ways except genitals" philosophy. You can per definition not have a female with a male brain, a male with a female brain or a tutti frutti of brains, unless we are speaking in terms of transsexuals and such things and somehow I doubt those make up a big enough group to throw off such a large sample size.


Actually its not silly at all, there is science behind it......I can go look up some sources later and post them if you'd like. It is very possible to have a female brain and be physically male and vice versa. Also genders are hardly equal in all ways, there are things that are true on average about the different genders. However it obviously varies depending on the individual and other factors such as research that indicates its possible to have sexual organs that do not match up with the brains gender.

But yes transsexuals would be part of what I'm describing......but one does not have to be a transexual to deviate from what is average for either gender. So it stills stands that if men are on average more intelligent, there could still be women smarter than most men and men that are less intelligent than most women.


Such cases are exceedingly rare, thus using them to throw an entire statistic and scientific research out the window, is like saying a firing squad should fire 2 shots, 1 in the left part of the chest and one to the right part of the chest, since 1:10000 or less have situs inversus. Its some one clings to avoid admitting that one was wrong.

I also never said that there weren't women smarter than most men or vice versa, if I did then I'd be making a generalization. That was not what I argued, it was what you thought I argued after not reading my post well enough.



TM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

01 May 2012, 2:25 pm

Joker wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
There are more men that are simply intellectually superior. It's a fact.


Unless you have some form of proof I disagree both men and women are equal intellectually.


I put 3 sources in a post 1 or 2 pages back. It makes no logical sense for men and women to be intellectually equal given biological differences and selective breeding. You can disagree all you want, but since your posts tend to be more gut-reaction rather than researched information, I'd say you should present a few sources to support your side as well.



hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

01 May 2012, 2:31 pm

TM wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
foxfield wrote:
It is a common stereotype that men are capable of more intellectual depth than women. For this reason I believe that cultural works produced by men are more likely to be viewed as serious and important and those produced by women are more likely to be dismissed as enjoyable yet trivial.

If you want an example of how deeply predjudiced people are about gender, I remember reading about a study in which people graded an exam. They found that the same exam tended to be graded lower when it had a girls name at the top rather than a boys name.


It's been scientifically proven that men are better at calculus math and physics than women. On the other hand, women are usually better at language skills and remembering formulas than men.


There are also a few studies that indicate that men are smarter than women on average, but I'm sure the studies will be claimed to be dodgy or ordered by the patriarchy. It's the funny thing about 3rd party sources, people tend to credit their own more than those of others.

http://www.livescience.com/7154-men-sma ... laims.html
http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=2357
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... ter-people

men are also dumber than women, as they consistently score at the bottom of the same tests.


_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt237032.html


visagrunt
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Vancouver, BC

01 May 2012, 2:33 pm

I see a vast amount of bias confirmation going on here.

"Men are better at X, women are better at Y," is almost never an objective assessment of fundamental cognitive skill, but rather a generalization grounded in subjective observation, and then reinforced by further observation of the same populations.

If we truly believed that men were better at math and science and women were better at verbal communication, then we would expect that these fundamental differences in performance would exist independently of external stimuli.

But that is clearly not the case. As opportunities for women's education and economic independence have increased during the last 150 years or so, there has been a corresponding increase in the participation of women in all spheres to which they have gained access. This should lead us all to the intuitive hypothesis that it is not a difference in cognitive capacity that accounts for differences in male and female performance, but a difference in economic capacity.


_________________
--James


hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

01 May 2012, 2:40 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
foxfield wrote:
It is a common stereotype that men are capable of more intellectual depth than women. For this reason I believe that cultural works produced by men are more likely to be viewed as serious and important and those produced by women are more likely to be dismissed as enjoyable yet trivial.

If you want an example of how deeply predjudiced people are about gender, I remember reading about a study in which people graded an exam. They found that the same exam tended to be graded lower when it had a girls name at the top rather than a boys name.


It's been scientifically proven that men are better at calculus math and physics than women. On the other hand, women are usually better at language skills and remembering formulas than men.


yeah maybe that some men are better at calculus, math and physics than some women and vice versa......but I highly doubt this is true of every single women and every single man. what is with all these black and white blanket generalizations?
Men are better at math and women are better at language on average. There's a big difference between pointing out how things are on average and generalizing. It's annoying to have to disclaim this all the time when it should simply go without saying. What is with people assuming that any sort of broad statement whatsoever is a black and white generalization? Pointing out averages isn't generalizing and not all generalizations are black and white either (see the irony there?). Matter of fact I find it's safer to assume that a generalization is a rule of thumb than to assume it's an absolute law since that's what I find it is more often than not.

if you don't disclaim those things by saying "on average" or something, they become sexist statements and breaks the rules. that is one big reason you need to use disclaimers.


_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt237032.html


Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

01 May 2012, 2:42 pm

TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
There are more men that are simply intellectually superior. It's a fact.


Unless you have some form of proof I disagree both men and women are equal intellectually.


I put 3 sources in a post 1 or 2 pages back. It makes no logical sense for men and women to be intellectually equal given biological differences and selective breeding. You can disagree all you want, but since your posts tend to be more gut-reaction rather than researched information, I'd say you should present a few sources to support your side as well.


I would be glad too sweet heart but most of your posts seems to always side with mostly men you never credit women for anything.

College is for girls

The two major points of an article in tomorrow's NY Times are (1) only 42% of college students are men; and (2) women get better grades in college than men.

A third point, crucially important to understanding the situation is that "[i]n the highest-income families, men 24 and under attend college as much as, or slightly more than, their sisters."

Despite higher female college attendence, men, on average, earn more money.

This trend is interesting but not really that mysterious:

(1) College is usually seen as preparation for a career, and once upon a time women weren't encouraged to have a career. Today that is not the case and women and men are nearly equally likely to want to have a career.

(2) Women have higher conscientiousness compared to men. Conscientiousness is one of the Big Five personality factors. This causes women to spend more hours studying and to be more likely to obey the rules. Thus they obtain better grades.

(3) At the lower end of the social spectrum, men see skilled blue collar jobs as more financially lucrative than low wage and low prestige white collar jobs available to graduates of bottom tier four year and two year colleges. Indeed, a plumber or an auto mechanic can earn a higher salary than a school teacher. But men from higher social classes have no desire to be a plumber so they are as equally likely to go to college as women.

(4) Men are better at math, and math-oriented majors tend to lead to better paying careers, probably because skills such as engineering and computer programming add more value to the economy, but maybe because such skills are merely scarcer.



Sweetleaf
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 6 Jan 2011
Gender: Female
Posts: 31,333
Location: Somewhere in Colorado

01 May 2012, 2:48 pm

TM wrote:
Such cases are exceedingly rare, thus using them to throw an entire statistic and scientific research out the window, is like saying a firing squad should fire 2 shots, 1 in the left part of the chest and one to the right part of the chest, since 1:10000 or less have situs inversus. Its some one clings to avoid admitting that one was wrong.

Transexuals and people who otherwise don't fit into the average are exceedingly rare? Also of course genders can be intellectually 'differen't' but I doubt as a whole men are simply more intelligent than women in general. there are certainly differences though but no the males don't get all the positive differences and no the females don't get all the negative differences. As in one gender is not better than the other.

Also what am I wrong about, and how exactly am I clinging to anything? I am simply pointing out there are exceptions to the general rule transsexuals being one example.


I also never said that there weren't women smarter than most men or vice versa, if I did then I'd be making a generalization. That was not what I argued, it was what you thought I argued after not reading my post well enough.


What I was challenging is your statement that men are more intelligent than women, I find that to be false......I know there are differences in some intellectual abilities based on the gender of a person but that is not to say men are nessisarly more intelligent on average.


_________________
Fascism is a disease.


Last edited by Sweetleaf on 01 May 2012, 2:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.

hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

01 May 2012, 2:50 pm

TM wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
TM wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
foxfield wrote:
It is a common stereotype that men are capable of more intellectual depth than women. For this reason I believe that cultural works produced by men are more likely to be viewed as serious and important and those produced by women are more likely to be dismissed as enjoyable yet trivial.

If you want an example of how deeply predjudiced people are about gender, I remember reading about a study in which people graded an exam. They found that the same exam tended to be graded lower when it had a girls name at the top rather than a boys name.


It's been scientifically proven that men are better at calculus math and physics than women. On the other hand, women are usually better at language skills and remembering formulas than men.


There are also a few studies that indicate that men are smarter than women on average, but I'm sure the studies will be claimed to be dodgy or ordered by the patriarchy. It's the funny thing about 3rd party sources, people tend to credit their own more than those of others.

http://www.livescience.com/7154-men-sma ... laims.html
http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=2357
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... ter-people


I only looked at one and basically all it confimed is some men are smarter than women, some women are smarter then men and vice versa. There is no way to prove all men are smarter than all women even if it were true. But anyways genders aren't even so black and white as they were once thought to be. Meaning one could be female with a male brain, or male with a female brain or there could even just be bits of both genders in the brain...so I guess ones sexual organs still does not determine their intelligence.


That's not the argument I was making. Saying that all men are smarter than all women or vice versa is stupid. What they do confirm is that men as a whole are smarter than women as a whole using the characteristics in those studies.

Your last part about "it could be a female with a male brain" etc is just silly, your genitals do not decide your intelligence, however they are indicative of certain things unless you subscribe to the rather absurd notion that "the genders are equal in all ways except genitals" philosophy. You can per definition not have a female with a male brain, a male with a female brain or a tutti frutti of brains, unless we are speaking in terms of transsexuals and such things and somehow I doubt those make up a big enough group to throw off such a large sample size.

the tests don't actually prove that. they just prove that on average men perform better at IQ tests. that does not mean that they are objectively smarter. if i created a bubble blowing test that evaluated the things that i am particularly good at, i think we'd find that i am the smartest in the world at bubble blowing. it all depends on what the tests measure.

by the way, your neurosexism is showing. there is no actual proof that male and female differences are hardwired, nor that they are based on physical brain differences.

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/cultu ... exism.html


_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt237032.html


Kurgan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,119
Location: Scandinavia

01 May 2012, 3:03 pm

TM wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
The problem with people who are so eager to call something a generalization is that they themselves are generalizing about generalizations. How are you so sure people mean "Absolutely ALL of them are like this" when they could mean "They are like this more often than not" or "Sure there's exceptions to the rule but the rule still stands"?

TM wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
foxfield wrote:
It is a common stereotype that men are capable of more intellectual depth than women. For this reason I believe that cultural works produced by men are more likely to be viewed as serious and important and those produced by women are more likely to be dismissed as enjoyable yet trivial.

If you want an example of how deeply predjudiced people are about gender, I remember reading about a study in which people graded an exam. They found that the same exam tended to be graded lower when it had a girls name at the top rather than a boys name.


It's been scientifically proven that men are better at calculus math and physics than women. On the other hand, women are usually better at language skills and remembering formulas than men.


There are also a few studies that indicate that men are smarter than women on average, but I'm sure the studies will be claimed to be dodgy or ordered by the patriarchy. It's the funny thing about 3rd party sources, people tend to credit their own more than those of others.

http://www.livescience.com/7154-men-sma ... laims.html
Dude, all this really says is that men have more brain tissue mass. More brain tissue is necessary if you have bigger muscles. Connectivity is a much bigger factor in intelligence. Also intelligence isn't a cut and dried definition since there's many different types of intelligence and it's hard to establish a type of intelligence that is universally applicable. The g factor is a construct so I'm a bit wary of that.


I quoted multiple sources for that reason. I tend to be in the camp that happens to think that our differences in hormones manifest more differences than chest-shape and genitals. Furthermore that "selective" breeding through societal preferences have enhanced different traits in both genders based on the values of a society.

I've mentioned that Ashkenazi Jews have a mean IQ of 115 whereas white people have an average IQ of 100. This is due to the focus on intelligence and the value attributed to things such as Torah/Talmud scholars and businessmen which in turn caused selective breeding between the offspring of the Scholars and best businessmen, causing mean IQ to rise in the group.

I don't see it as far fetched that the same is the case with other traits or in other group.


An average Israeli has a mean IQ of 93. American jews have high IQs because affluent families can afford good education.



Joker
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Mar 2011
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,593
Location: North Carolina The Tar Heel State :)

01 May 2012, 3:04 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
TM wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
TM wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
foxfield wrote:
It is a common stereotype that men are capable of more intellectual depth than women. For this reason I believe that cultural works produced by men are more likely to be viewed as serious and important and those produced by women are more likely to be dismissed as enjoyable yet trivial.

If you want an example of how deeply predjudiced people are about gender, I remember reading about a study in which people graded an exam. They found that the same exam tended to be graded lower when it had a girls name at the top rather than a boys name.


It's been scientifically proven that men are better at calculus math and physics than women. On the other hand, women are usually better at language skills and remembering formulas than men.


There are also a few studies that indicate that men are smarter than women on average, but I'm sure the studies will be claimed to be dodgy or ordered by the patriarchy. It's the funny thing about 3rd party sources, people tend to credit their own more than those of others.

http://www.livescience.com/7154-men-sma ... laims.html
http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=2357
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... ter-people


I only looked at one and basically all it confimed is some men are smarter than women, some women are smarter then men and vice versa. There is no way to prove all men are smarter than all women even if it were true. But anyways genders aren't even so black and white as they were once thought to be. Meaning one could be female with a male brain, or male with a female brain or there could even just be bits of both genders in the brain...so I guess ones sexual organs still does not determine their intelligence.


That's not the argument I was making. Saying that all men are smarter than all women or vice versa is stupid. What they do confirm is that men as a whole are smarter than women as a whole using the characteristics in those studies.

Your last part about "it could be a female with a male brain" etc is just silly, your genitals do not decide your intelligence, however they are indicative of certain things unless you subscribe to the rather absurd notion that "the genders are equal in all ways except genitals" philosophy. You can per definition not have a female with a male brain, a male with a female brain or a tutti frutti of brains, unless we are speaking in terms of transsexuals and such things and somehow I doubt those make up a big enough group to throw off such a large sample size.

the tests don't actually prove that. they just prove that on average men perform better at IQ tests. that does not mean that they are objectively smarter. if i created a bubble blowing test that evaluated the things that i am particularly good at, i think we'd find that i am the smartest in the world at bubble blowing. it all depends on what the tests measure.

by the way, your neurosexism is showing. there is no actual proof that male and female differences are hardwired, nor that they are based on physical brain differences.

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/cultu ... exism.html


You tell em my favorite WP mother.



TM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

01 May 2012, 3:07 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
TM wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
TM wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
foxfield wrote:
It is a common stereotype that men are capable of more intellectual depth than women. For this reason I believe that cultural works produced by men are more likely to be viewed as serious and important and those produced by women are more likely to be dismissed as enjoyable yet trivial.

If you want an example of how deeply predjudiced people are about gender, I remember reading about a study in which people graded an exam. They found that the same exam tended to be graded lower when it had a girls name at the top rather than a boys name.


It's been scientifically proven that men are better at calculus math and physics than women. On the other hand, women are usually better at language skills and remembering formulas than men.


There are also a few studies that indicate that men are smarter than women on average, but I'm sure the studies will be claimed to be dodgy or ordered by the patriarchy. It's the funny thing about 3rd party sources, people tend to credit their own more than those of others.

http://www.livescience.com/7154-men-sma ... laims.html
http://wmbriggs.com/blog/?p=2357
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the ... ter-people


I only looked at one and basically all it confimed is some men are smarter than women, some women are smarter then men and vice versa. There is no way to prove all men are smarter than all women even if it were true. But anyways genders aren't even so black and white as they were once thought to be. Meaning one could be female with a male brain, or male with a female brain or there could even just be bits of both genders in the brain...so I guess ones sexual organs still does not determine their intelligence.


That's not the argument I was making. Saying that all men are smarter than all women or vice versa is stupid. What they do confirm is that men as a whole are smarter than women as a whole using the characteristics in those studies.

Your last part about "it could be a female with a male brain" etc is just silly, your genitals do not decide your intelligence, however they are indicative of certain things unless you subscribe to the rather absurd notion that "the genders are equal in all ways except genitals" philosophy. You can per definition not have a female with a male brain, a male with a female brain or a tutti frutti of brains, unless we are speaking in terms of transsexuals and such things and somehow I doubt those make up a big enough group to throw off such a large sample size.

the tests don't actually prove that. they just prove that on average men perform better at IQ tests. that does not mean that they are objectively smarter. if i created a bubble blowing test that evaluated the things that i am particularly good at, i think we'd find that i am the smartest in the world at bubble blowing. it all depends on what the tests measure.

by the way, your neurosexism is showing. there is no actual proof that male and female differences are hardwired, nor that they are based on physical brain differences.

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/cultu ... exism.html


I put in 3 links with studies, you linked an article referring to a couple of books. Somehow I seem to be more backed up in my point of view given the vast criticism of Cordelia Fine, I believe the quote was "Fine presents no original science but assiduously takes to task those who do, at least where the work seems to show brain gender."

Here is where my problem is, IQ testing is accepted as the only entry requirement for organizations such as Prometheus and Mensa and is viewed as testing a persons intelligence, I realize that people that score horribly on such tests downplay their value but that's just like a man calling a woman who won't date him a "b***h".

Scoring higher on IQ tests = More intelligent. At my IQ level I believe its statistically 1 woman for every 6 males.

As I've said to you before, linking sources without any sort of judgment on their quality is pointless. Now, in that regard, the daily mail is hardly a quality paper, however the person who wrote this article is quite a merited professor and he gets support from the head honcho at Harvard (which ironically owns the publisher who published one of the books in your link) http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/artic ... -Lynn.html

Here is another one which seems to indicate biological differences as well http://www.iqtestexperts.com/iq-better.php

Yet another one http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m ... _19734100/

I can keep this up forever if you like.



Kurgan
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 6 Apr 2012
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 4,119
Location: Scandinavia

01 May 2012, 3:08 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
foxfield wrote:
It is a common stereotype that men are capable of more intellectual depth than women. For this reason I believe that cultural works produced by men are more likely to be viewed as serious and important and those produced by women are more likely to be dismissed as enjoyable yet trivial.

If you want an example of how deeply predjudiced people are about gender, I remember reading about a study in which people graded an exam. They found that the same exam tended to be graded lower when it had a girls name at the top rather than a boys name.


It's been scientifically proven that men are better at calculus math and physics than women. On the other hand, women are usually better at language skills and remembering formulas than men.


yeah maybe that some men are better at calculus, math and physics than some women and vice versa......but I highly doubt this is true of every single women and every single man. what is with all these black and white blanket generalizations?


In basic theory of probability, if enough tests with a high enough number of participants conclude with something, it is true even with a very strict significance level.

Likewise, it's safe to assume men are physically stronger than women, even though there are women who can bench press 300 lbs unassisted.



TM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

01 May 2012, 3:09 pm

Kurgan wrote:
TM wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
The problem with people who are so eager to call something a generalization is that they themselves are generalizing about generalizations. How are you so sure people mean "Absolutely ALL of them are like this" when they could mean "They are like this more often than not" or "Sure there's exceptions to the rule but the rule still stands"?

TM wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
foxfield wrote:
It is a common stereotype that men are capable of more intellectual depth than women. For this reason I believe that cultural works produced by men are more likely to be viewed as serious and important and those produced by women are more likely to be dismissed as enjoyable yet trivial.

If you want an example of how deeply predjudiced people are about gender, I remember reading about a study in which people graded an exam. They found that the same exam tended to be graded lower when it had a girls name at the top rather than a boys name.


It's been scientifically proven that men are better at calculus math and physics than women. On the other hand, women are usually better at language skills and remembering formulas than men.


There are also a few studies that indicate that men are smarter than women on average, but I'm sure the studies will be claimed to be dodgy or ordered by the patriarchy. It's the funny thing about 3rd party sources, people tend to credit their own more than those of others.

http://www.livescience.com/7154-men-sma ... laims.html
Dude, all this really says is that men have more brain tissue mass. More brain tissue is necessary if you have bigger muscles. Connectivity is a much bigger factor in intelligence. Also intelligence isn't a cut and dried definition since there's many different types of intelligence and it's hard to establish a type of intelligence that is universally applicable. The g factor is a construct so I'm a bit wary of that.


I quoted multiple sources for that reason. I tend to be in the camp that happens to think that our differences in hormones manifest more differences than chest-shape and genitals. Furthermore that "selective" breeding through societal preferences have enhanced different traits in both genders based on the values of a society.

I've mentioned that Ashkenazi Jews have a mean IQ of 115 whereas white people have an average IQ of 100. This is due to the focus on intelligence and the value attributed to things such as Torah/Talmud scholars and businessmen which in turn caused selective breeding between the offspring of the Scholars and best businessmen, causing mean IQ to rise in the group.

I don't see it as far fetched that the same is the case with other traits or in other group.


An average Israeli has a mean IQ of 93. American jews have high IQs because affluent families can afford good education.


Not Israeli or American jews, Ashkenazi it's a subgroup of Jews. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 51,00.html



hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

01 May 2012, 3:12 pm

you completely missed the point, TM. you can link to thousands of studies that all say the same thing, but they are still arguing the same mistaken premise.

IQ tests do not measure intelligence, so it is inaccurate to state that people who score higher on the tests are more intelligent. IQ tests only measure people's performance on IQ tests, just like my bubble blowing test would measure how well people can perform compared to me on my special criteria.

and it really does not matter if someone writes a book without introducing new scientific concepts. she can still accurately criticise the neurosexism of past studies.


_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt237032.html


TM
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 3 Feb 2012
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,122

01 May 2012, 3:14 pm

Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
There are more men that are simply intellectually superior. It's a fact.


Unless you have some form of proof I disagree both men and women are equal intellectually.


I put 3 sources in a post 1 or 2 pages back. It makes no logical sense for men and women to be intellectually equal given biological differences and selective breeding. You can disagree all you want, but since your posts tend to be more gut-reaction rather than researched information, I'd say you should present a few sources to support your side as well.


I would be glad too sweet heart but most of your posts seems to always side with mostly men you never credit women for anything.



I credit women where they should be credited. As I've said before I love strong, ambitious women who fight and get what they want by merit rather than by affirmative action and screaming "SEXIST", "SEXIST". I credited feminism with promoting gender equality, and I criticize "modern" feminism for being misguided.

I'm much more nuanced on the issue than you, Hyperlexican or any of the self-proclaimed "pro-women" advocates on this board. It's called being objective. If my posts seem to be one-sided, that's partly to blame on the other party in the discussion as well. As I said earlier, net discussions have a tendency to bring out the extremists on every issue.



hyperlexian
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 22,023
Location: with bucephalus

01 May 2012, 3:17 pm

TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
TM wrote:
Joker wrote:
bizboy1 wrote:
There are more men that are simply intellectually superior. It's a fact.


Unless you have some form of proof I disagree both men and women are equal intellectually.


I put 3 sources in a post 1 or 2 pages back. It makes no logical sense for men and women to be intellectually equal given biological differences and selective breeding. You can disagree all you want, but since your posts tend to be more gut-reaction rather than researched information, I'd say you should present a few sources to support your side as well.


I would be glad too sweet heart but most of your posts seems to always side with mostly men you never credit women for anything.



I credit women where they should be credited. As I've said before I love strong, ambitious women who fight and get what they want by merit rather than by affirmative action and screaming "SEXIST", "SEXIST". I credited feminism with promoting gender equality, and I criticize "modern" feminism for being misguided.

I'm much more nuanced on the issue than you, Hyperlexican or any of the self-proclaimed "pro-women" advocates on this board. It's called being objective. If my posts seem to be one-sided, that's partly to blame on the other party in the discussion as well. As I said earlier, net discussions have a tendency to bring out the extremists on every issue.

i am not "pro-women". i am "pro-humans". does "nuanced" mean "selectively sexist", or something else?


_________________
on a break, so if you need assistance please contact another moderator from this list:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt237032.html