Do we have any muslim members or lurkers here?

Page 1 of 3 [ 32 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

thomas81
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 38
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,434
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland

06 Sep 2012, 2:51 pm

After reading a minority of comments on the "Are muslims...." thread, I felt pretty disgusted. Are there any muslim contributors on this forum?

It would be good to get a muslim perspective on this debate.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,726
Location: New Jersey

07 Sep 2012, 8:00 am

thomas81 wrote:
After reading a minority of comments on the "Are muslims...." thread, I felt pretty disgusted. Are there any muslim contributors on this forum?

It would be good to get a muslim perspective on this debate.


Here is what you will hear. God is Great and Mohammed (PBUH) is His Messenger.

ruveyn



Mike_Garrick
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 4 Aug 2012
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 254

07 Sep 2012, 8:07 am

ruveyn wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
After reading a minority of comments on the "Are muslims...." thread, I felt pretty disgusted. Are there any muslim contributors on this forum?

It would be good to get a muslim perspective on this debate.


Here is what you will hear. God is Great and Mohammed (PBUH) is His Messenger.

ruveyn

Take it back to the other thread Mr. Smegma.
He asked for a Muslim's perspective.
Not an anti-Muslim Jew's opinion that he's already heard.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,726
Location: New Jersey

07 Sep 2012, 8:08 am

Mike_Garrick wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
After reading a minority of comments on the "Are muslims...." thread, I felt pretty disgusted. Are there any muslim contributors on this forum?

It would be good to get a muslim perspective on this debate.


Here is what you will hear. God is Great and Mohammed (PBUH) is His Messenger.

ruveyn

Take it back to the other thread Mr. Smegma.
He asked for a Muslim's perspective.
Not an anti-Muslim Jew's opinion that he's already heard.


I am quoting the Party Line. Have you bothered to read the Q'ran or the Hadiths?

One does not have to be a Marxist to quote Marx or a Christian to quote Paul.

ruveyn



Mike_Garrick
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 4 Aug 2012
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 254

07 Sep 2012, 8:16 am

ruveyn wrote:
Mike_Garrick wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
After reading a minority of comments on the "Are muslims...." thread, I felt pretty disgusted. Are there any muslim contributors on this forum?

It would be good to get a muslim perspective on this debate.


Here is what you will hear. God is Great and Mohammed (PBUH) is His Messenger.

ruveyn

Take it back to the other thread Mr. Smegma.
He asked for a Muslim's perspective.
Not an anti-Muslim Jew's opinion that he's already heard.


I am quoting the Party Line. Have you bothered to read the Q'ran or the Hadiths?

One does not have to be a Marxist to quote Marx or a Christian to quote Paul.

ruveyn

That would be great if he was asking about the Qur'an.
But he is not. He is asking about a Muslim's opinion concerning this thread.



meems
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2010
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,093

07 Sep 2012, 8:27 am

My mother converted to Islam(both my parents were non-religious Jews) and she and her husband are Muslims. Their family is Muslim. They rarely mention god or whatever. My stepfather's entire family that lives in the U.S. and the Muslim community are not part of what a lot of people associate Islam with. None of my Muslim friends harp about religious crap. They are just wanting to live an American life and give their kids more opportunities and a better home.

After 9/11 there was a lot of violence toward some of them, those who were very obviously Muslim. In the apartment complex we lived in before my mother and stepfather started an accounting firm(we were living in a crappy area) a guy saw my sister and I and assumed we were all my stepfather's wives. He pulled a knife on me one night when I was walking to the store. People are ignorant. People are full of hate. People are... people.

Even Muslims are, but no more than any other group. Islam doesn't make people bad, and sorry ruveyn, but not all Muslims buy into the Hadith books, many know it's complete and utter bullshit.

I'll admit a lot of the comments I see on Muslims here repulse me because of the violence I've encountered, the myriad bigots I've had to deal with and eventually just let it go. That's the attitude I see here, that someone Muslims are set apart and they can't be normal, average people. So they become objects and it becomes OK not to treat them as human etc.

It makes me want to vomit. But like my stepfather's family, I most often try to ignore it and not get upset about it. I had a hard time reading that thread. Not for anger but for sadness.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,726
Location: New Jersey

07 Sep 2012, 8:30 am

meems wrote:
My mother converted to Islam(both my parents were non-religious Jews) and she and her husband are Muslims. Their family is Muslim. They rarely mention god or whatever. My stepfather's entire family that lives in the U.S. and the Muslim community are not part of what a lot of people associate Islam with. None of my Muslim friends harp about religious crap. They are just wanting to live an American life and give their kids more opportunities and a better home.

After 9/11 there was a lot of violence toward some of them, those who were very obviously Muslim. In the apartment complex we lived in before my mother and stepfather started an accounting firm(we were living in a crappy area) a guy saw my sister and I and assumed we were all my stepfather's wives. He pulled a knife on me one night when I was walking to the store. People are ignorant. People are full of hate. People are... people.

Even Muslims are, but no more than any other group. Islam doesn't make people bad, and sorry ruveyn, but not all Muslims buy into the Hadith books, many know it's complete and utter bullshit.

I'll admit a lot of the comments I see on Muslims here repulse me because of the violence I've encountered, the myriad bigots I've had to deal with and eventually just let it go. That's the attitude I see here, that someone Muslims are set apart and they can't be normal, average people. So they become objects and it becomes OK not to treat them as human etc.

It makes me want to vomit. But like my stepfather's family, I most often try to ignore it and not get upset about it. I had a hard time reading that thread. Not for anger but for sadness.


The assertion that God is God and Mohamud is his Messenger (Rasul-Allah) is from the Q'ran, multiple times. If you are Muslim, I assume you take the Q'ran seriously. Is that right?

ruveyn



Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 30,508
Location: Lancashire, UK

07 Sep 2012, 8:35 am

meems wrote:
That's the attitude I see here, that someone Muslims are set apart and they can't be normal, average people.


I don't think anyone's ever said that Muslims can't be normal, friendly, decent people like everyone else (I know because I've met a fair few). Doesn't change the fact that IMO as often espoused it's a dangerous, violent, supremacist ideology that isn't welcome here or anywhere in the Western world and that the bullies, fanatics, criminals and terrorists are a big part of the problem and dominate it and it isn't helped by our appeasement policy.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,726
Location: New Jersey

07 Sep 2012, 8:40 am

Tequila wrote:
meems wrote:
That's the attitude I see here, that someone Muslims are set apart and they can't be normal, average people.


I don't think anyone's ever said that Muslims can't be normal, friendly, decent people like everyone else (I know because I've met a fair few). Doesn't change the fact that IMO as often espoused it's a dangerous, violent, supremacist ideology that isn't welcome here or anywhere in the Western world and that the bullies, fanatics and terrorists are a big part of the problem and dominate it.


Solution. Let us keep our religion mostly quiet and private. The first thing that has to stop is trying to convert outsiders to one's religion. That is annoying, impolite, unkind, and in some ways dangerous.

The second thing we have to learn is not to claim any kind of civic privilege because of our religion or church affiliation. Churches should pay taxes just like any other kind of business. And religious motivation should in no way excuse wrong doing.

If Muslims would keep their religion to themselves (which is what they do in the U.S., by and large) and not allow their religious enthusiasm have any political or military expression, then all would be well. In the U.S. you don't see Muslims threatening to burn down newspaper publishing houses for printing insulting images of the Messenger (PBUH).

r uveyn



Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 30,508
Location: Lancashire, UK

07 Sep 2012, 8:42 am

ruveyn wrote:
If Muslims would keep their religion to themselves (which is what they do in the U.S., by and large) and not allow their religious enthusiasm have any political or military expression, then all would be well. In the U.S. you don't see Muslims threatening to burn down newspaper publishing houses for printing insulting images of the Messenger (PBUH).


Precisely. Keep your religion to yourself, obey the law, don't endlessly demand special treatment or pressure people to fit in or yield to your beliefs and we'll get on just fine.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,726
Location: New Jersey

07 Sep 2012, 8:47 am

Tequila wrote:
Precisely. Keep your religion to yourself, obey the law, don't endlessly demand special treatment or people to fit in with your beliefs and we'll get on just fine.


Yes Sir! Never once have I have been importuned or harassed by believers in The Great Blue Unicorn of Idaho. Never. Ever. These folks mind their own business and are quiet and peaceful.

The same with the Amish. I have never been given a hard time by any Amish person.

They seem to be quiet clean living folks who bother no one and should not be bothered by anyone. If the Amish were ever threatened I would gladly come to their defense if they would have me do so.

ruveyn



Mike_Garrick
Toucan
Toucan

User avatar

Joined: 4 Aug 2012
Age: 32
Gender: Male
Posts: 254

07 Sep 2012, 8:53 am

Tequila wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
If Muslims would keep their religion to themselves (which is what they do in the U.S., by and large) and not allow their religious enthusiasm have any political or military expression, then all would be well. In the U.S. you don't see Muslims threatening to burn down newspaper publishing houses for printing insulting images of the Messenger (PBUH).


Precisely. Keep your religion to yourself, obey the law, don't endlessly demand special treatment or pressure people to fit in or yield to your beliefs and we'll get on just fine.

Yet constantly they are harassed, assaulted and their churches desecrated.
I think all religion is a pile of crap and even I know that you shouldn't mess with someones church.

As for not forcing your religion on someone else, Americans don't have much to say about that since being christian will make or break a presidents election.
I'd like to see anyone in run for any office and be openly atheist. No one will because it would end their campaign in its track.
Its on every bill in your pocket "In god we trust"

That aside this conversation is not relevant to this thread and should be moved to another.



Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 30,508
Location: Lancashire, UK

07 Sep 2012, 8:55 am

Mike_Garrick wrote:
Yet constantly they are harassed, assaulted and their churches desecrated.


Proof? The desecration of mosques in Europe is very rare (I've heard the odd story about racists damaging mosques and drunkenly talking about blowing them up, but they never come to serious harm); Muslim harrassment and violence towards gays and Jews and desecration of synagogues is a lot more common.



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 83
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,726
Location: New Jersey

07 Sep 2012, 8:57 am

Mike_Garrick wrote:
[
Its on every bill in your pocket "In god we trust"

That aside this conversation is not relevant to this thread and should be moved to another.


"In God We Trust" has only been a motto since the Civil War. Originally the Motto of the U.S. was E Pluribus Unim. Out of many, one.

ruveyn



meems
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 1 Dec 2010
Age: 33
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,093

07 Sep 2012, 9:15 am

My family members and friends who are Muslim do take some of the Qu'ran seriously, but only about as seriously as your average hald-assed Christian takes the Bible. They just want to get along in society without fear that someone is going to knife their stepdaughter because he heard him speaking Arabic and his wife covers her hair.

I mean that's an insane reason to harass someone. We aren't responsible for how people around the world act. Anyone should wish to end violence and oppression etc but what can we really do about some cave dwelling scavengers? What can I do? If I consider myself a part of a Muslim community/family, where does my responsibility begin and end?

And no, I don't take the Qu'ran seriously. While I consider myself a part of a very large Muslim family, I'm not a Muslim. I don't believe in any of that nonsense. I'm an atheist, raised in a Jewish household, I see nothing appealing about Islam, but I just don't understand saying Muslims do this or that and then "oh, I don't mean all Muslims!"

I do agree, the first rule of religion should be the same as the first rule of fight club. But most Muslims I know also agree with that and it's due in part to fear for their safety.