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Raptor
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27 Jun 2012, 1:36 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Thus they believe intolerance is some sort of virtue of individual liberty.

It is an individual liberty plain and simple. It may not be popular but nothing says that liberties and freedoms have to be.


That is not the point at all, the point is they hold something as a virtue based on their misunderstanding of tolerance to begin with. For instance, I am tolerant of Muslims, but I honestly really, really dislike their religion which is almost inseparable from their politics. That does not mean I will make things difficult for them as individuals. I will give them their space so long as they do not tread on mine, because I value humans not based on their religion or politics but by the fact that... they are human. Intolerance is not a virtue, though I suppose religion does play a part in making it seem so, since all religions inevitably claim *they* are the right one and others are wrong. Having the belief that you are chosen from on high definitely does not encourage tolerance towards the "lesser" unenlightened folk


And I think you missed my point. The only question is was it intentional or not.
:roll:


I know exactly what you said, and I am simply saying that it is not relevant. Yeah, its your right to be a huge dick. That doesn't mean you *should*. What acting that way to prove a point (like many do...) amounts to is vainglorious, ignoble self promotion disguised as "exercising one's rights". Common sense and human communication protocols should take precedence, not the fact that you *can* be a giant douche. All you would be demonstrating is... that you are a giant douche. Now do you understand?


Yes, now I understand that you are a giant douche. Thanks for finally admitting it. Now the healing can begin..... :D



Sweetleaf
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27 Jun 2012, 1:41 pm

Cool story, bro. 8)

Now on a more serious note, the first step to recovory is admitting you have a problem so congratulationsImage. I admit I agreed with a couple of your points but there was too much general nastiness for me to read through to get to those.



Last edited by Sweetleaf on 27 Jun 2012, 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JWC
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27 Jun 2012, 1:45 pm

Oodain wrote:
it is(in a way vlarification below) by its very nature, any memory you form is revised and altered everytime you remember it and then you have to take the sheer scale and number of variables into account, something even thousands of people working together have trouble with today.

so while i dont think it has to be erronous the probability of one being 100% right about a single subject is vanishingly small, even more so when making generalizations and if you look at the entirety of a person opinions and belief it is practically impossible for a person not to be wrong about something.

all of this only touches on the issue of observervation bias.

let me ask you this:
do you know anyone that is always right?
and even if you do try to ask them if they believe they are error free.


To answer your question, no. But if they were right about something, and they refuse to change their position; would you refer to them as "static"?



Vigilans
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27 Jun 2012, 2:48 pm

Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Thus they believe intolerance is some sort of virtue of individual liberty.

It is an individual liberty plain and simple. It may not be popular but nothing says that liberties and freedoms have to be.


That is not the point at all, the point is they hold something as a virtue based on their misunderstanding of tolerance to begin with. For instance, I am tolerant of Muslims, but I honestly really, really dislike their religion which is almost inseparable from their politics. That does not mean I will make things difficult for them as individuals. I will give them their space so long as they do not tread on mine, because I value humans not based on their religion or politics but by the fact that... they are human. Intolerance is not a virtue, though I suppose religion does play a part in making it seem so, since all religions inevitably claim *they* are the right one and others are wrong. Having the belief that you are chosen from on high definitely does not encourage tolerance towards the "lesser" unenlightened folk


And I think you missed my point. The only question is was it intentional or not.
:roll:


I know exactly what you said, and I am simply saying that it is not relevant. Yeah, its your right to be a huge dick. That doesn't mean you *should*. What acting that way to prove a point (like many do...) amounts to is vainglorious, ignoble self promotion disguised as "exercising one's rights". Common sense and human communication protocols should take precedence, not the fact that you *can* be a giant douche. All you would be demonstrating is... that you are a giant douche. Now do you understand?


Yes, now I understand that you are a giant douche. Thanks for finally admitting it. Now the healing can begin..... :D


When you have nothing to come back with (not that you ever do, since the height of your debate capabilities are "I know you are, but what am I?" and the classic "You are just proving my point/making me more conservative") I guess the time for direct insults begins.


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You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


Oodain
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27 Jun 2012, 3:00 pm

JWC wrote:

To answer your question, no. But if they were right about something, and they refuse to change their position; would you refer to them as "static"?


no, but thats just it with the amount and nature of some of the subjects in the OP you can be sure he is wrong about something, if only scope and scale.
some of the things can only be true if framed better than they were in the OP as well, ie because they are uttered as generalizations they are inherently wrong, even if they were true locally.

but what we are discussing here isnt on specific issues but on the mindset that goes behind them, with observation bias and the host of other points we have discussed it all comes back to one thing: does the person in question allow himself to be wrong as readily as he does right?

i never set my mind in stone about anything, that is not to say my opnion is ever changing, only that i allow it to be changed, that observation bias more often than not messes up the process only means we have to allow for that much more "potential change"


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marshall
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27 Jun 2012, 3:44 pm

My response to the anonymous author of this copy-and-pasted article.

shadowboxer wrote:
I like big trucks, big boats, big houses, and naturally, pretty women.

All the power to you, just don't whine too much about gas and energy prices going up.

Quote:
I believe the money I make belongs to me and my family, not some midlevel governmental functionary with a bad comb-over who wants to give it away to crack addicts squirting out babies.

Lol, whatever.

Quote:
I don't care about appearing compassionate (if I don't actually feel it).

Feel free, but don't whine about being "silenced" or "oppressed" when "PC liberals" (i.e. anyone who isn't a heartless far-right reactionary) shun you.

Quote:
I don't think having a gun makes you a killer. I think killing someone makes you a killer.

Agreed.

Quote:
I think I'm doing better than the homeless.

Thank your lucky stars.

Quote:
I don't think being a minority makes you noble or victimized.

Neither do I.

Quote:
I have the right not to be tolerant of others because they are different, weird or make me mad. This is my life to live, and not necessarily up to others expectations.

Fine, but don't whine when others return the favor and let you know that you are an obnoxious cretin.

Quote:
I know what SEX is and there are not varying degrees of it.

Okay. :scratch:

Quote:
I don't celebrate Kwanzaa. But if you want to that's fine; just don't feel like everyone else should have to.

No one does. It's all in your imagination.

Quote:
I believe that if you are selling me a Dairy Queen shake, a pack of cigarettes, or hotel room you do it in English. As of matter of fact, if you are an American citizen you should speak English. My uncles and forefathers shouldn't have had to die in vain so you can leave the countries you were born in to come disrespect ours, and make us bend to your will. Get over it.

I agree in principle, but you clearly don't have the capacity to walk a mile in someone else's shoes. If you want to treat people uncivilly for having an accent then don't expect civil treatment in return. It's called basic human decency.

Quote:
I think the cops have every right to shoot you if you're running from them after they tell you to stop. If you can't understand the word 'freeze' or 'stop' in English, see the previous line.

And assholes like you should never become cops.

Quote:
I don't use the excuse "it's for the children" as a shield for unpopular opinions or actions.

Agreed.

Quote:
I know how to count votes and I feel much safer letting a machine with no political affiliation do a recount when needed.

No opinion.

Quote:
I know what the definition of lying is, and it isn't based on the word -- ever.

No opinion.

Quote:
I don't think just because you were not born in this country, you qualify for any special loan programs, gov't sponsored bank loans, etc., so you can open a hotel, 7-Eleven, trinket shop, or anything else, while the indigenous peoples can't get past a high school education because they can't afford it.

I would agree, but you're obviously blowing these things WAYYY out of proportion because you're a bitter resentful scrooge.

Quote:
I didn't take the initiative in inventing the Internet.

lolwut?

Quote:
I thought the Taco Bell dog was funny.

So did I.

Quote:
I want them to bring back safe and sane fireworks.

Fine. As long as people are required to educate themselves on how to not be an idiot with them.

Quote:
I believe no one ever died because of something Ozzy Osbourne, Ice-T or Marilyn Manson sang, but that doesn't mean I want to listen to that crap from someone else's car when I'm stopped at a red light. But I respect your right to.

Just blast your own red-state approved rockers right back at them. You know, Lynard Skynard, ACDC, or Kid Rock. If you're really old-school in your tastes you could try blasting some Johnny Rebel.

Quote:
I think that being a student doesn't give you any more enlightenment than working at Blockbuster or Jack In The Box.

I'd say it depends on the student more than anything else. Going to college doesn't automatically make people smarter.

Quote:
I don't want to eat or drink anything with the words light, lite or fat-free on the package.

Good for you. Me neither. It's till prefer it if they made junk food with the good old-fashioned ingredients instead of fake overly-processed crap that turns out to be even worse for your body.

Quote:
Our soldiers did not go to some foreign country and risk their lives in vain and defend our Constitution so that decades later you can tell me it's a living document ever changing and is open to interpretation. The guys who wrote it were light years ahead of anyone today, and they meant what they said; now leave the document alone, or there's going to be trouble.

Yup. The original constitution was so perfect it must have been written by God Himself. Abolition? Women's suffrage? Blasphemy!

Also, when you whine about constitutional interpretations I take it you're mostly complaining about "social programs" and "wealth redistribution".

Quote:
I don't hate the rich.

Good for you.

Quote:
I don't pity the poor.

No comment.

Quote:
I know wrestling is fake. So are television and movies. I watch them anyway.

Watch whatever you like.

Quote:
I've never owned, or was a slave, and a large percentage of our forefathers weren't wealthy enough to own one either. Please stop blaming me because some prior white people were idiots. And remember, tons of white, Indian, Chinese, and other races have been enslaved too; it was wrong for every one of them.

Again, good for you. You want a star or happy sticker on your report card?

Quote:
I believe a self-righteous liberal with a cause is more dangerous than a Hell's Angel with an attitude.

I'm sure they are. :roll:

Quote:
I'll admit that the only movie that ever made me cry was Ole Yeller.

There's nothing wrong with showing human emotion every once in a while.

Quote:
I will not be frowned upon or be looked down upon or be made to keep silent because I have these beliefs and opinions. I thought this country allowed me that right. I will not conform or compromise just to keep from hurting somebody's feelings. I'm neither angry nor disenfranchised, no matter how desperately the mainstream media would like the world to believe otherwise.

Nobody going to take away your right to whine about how all the mean PC liberals are shunning you and calling your views backwards. You are free to say whatever you want. Just don't expect everyone to like or respect you if you insist on advertising your more insulting views. Respect is earned, not automatically assumed.

Quote:
Yes, I guess by some people's definition, I may be a bad American, but I vote--even when it rains.

Sadly.



JWC
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27 Jun 2012, 3:53 pm

Oodain wrote:
JWC wrote:

To answer your question, no. But if they were right about something, and they refuse to change their position; would you refer to them as "static"?


no, but thats just it with the amount and nature of some of the subjects in the OP you can be sure he is wrong about something, if only scope and scale.
some of the things can only be true if framed better than they were in the OP as well, ie because they are uttered as generalizations they are inherently wrong, even if they were true locally.

but what we are discussing here isnt on specific issues but on the mindset that goes behind them, with observation bias and the host of other points we have discussed it all comes back to one thing: does the person in question allow himself to be wrong as readily as he does right?

i never set my mind in stone about anything, that is not to say my opnion is ever changing, only that i allow it to be changed, that observation bias more often than not messes up the process only means we have to allow for that much more "potential change"


Ok. I now understand your position.



Raptor
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27 Jun 2012, 9:08 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Thus they believe intolerance is some sort of virtue of individual liberty.

It is an individual liberty plain and simple. It may not be popular but nothing says that liberties and freedoms have to be.


That is not the point at all, the point is they hold something as a virtue based on their misunderstanding of tolerance to begin with. For instance, I am tolerant of Muslims, but I honestly really, really dislike their religion which is almost inseparable from their politics. That does not mean I will make things difficult for them as individuals. I will give them their space so long as they do not tread on mine, because I value humans not based on their religion or politics but by the fact that... they are human. Intolerance is not a virtue, though I suppose religion does play a part in making it seem so, since all religions inevitably claim *they* are the right one and others are wrong. Having the belief that you are chosen from on high definitely does not encourage tolerance towards the "lesser" unenlightened folk


And I think you missed my point. The only question is was it intentional or not.
:roll:


I know exactly what you said, and I am simply saying that it is not relevant. Yeah, its your right to be a huge dick. That doesn't mean you *should*. What acting that way to prove a point (like many do...) amounts to is vainglorious, ignoble self promotion disguised as "exercising one's rights". Common sense and human communication protocols should take precedence, not the fact that you *can* be a giant douche. All you would be demonstrating is... that you are a giant douche. Now do you understand?


Yes, now I understand that you are a giant douche. Thanks for finally admitting it. Now the healing can begin..... :D


When you have nothing to come back with (not that you ever do, since the height of your debate capabilities are "I know you are, but what am I?" and the classic "You are just proving my point/making me more conservative") I guess the time for direct insults begins.


Insults, whether direct or indirect, are the essence of PPR.
Insult away! :D



xenon13
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27 Jun 2012, 9:45 pm

That rant to open this thread is an invitation to be disliked.



Raptor
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27 Jun 2012, 9:52 pm

xenon13 wrote:
That rant to open this thread is an invitation to be disliked.


I wish I'd thought to write it.... :twisted:



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27 Jun 2012, 9:56 pm

Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Thus they believe intolerance is some sort of virtue of individual liberty.

It is an individual liberty plain and simple. It may not be popular but nothing says that liberties and freedoms have to be.


That is not the point at all, the point is they hold something as a virtue based on their misunderstanding of tolerance to begin with. For instance, I am tolerant of Muslims, but I honestly really, really dislike their religion which is almost inseparable from their politics. That does not mean I will make things difficult for them as individuals. I will give them their space so long as they do not tread on mine, because I value humans not based on their religion or politics but by the fact that... they are human. Intolerance is not a virtue, though I suppose religion does play a part in making it seem so, since all religions inevitably claim *they* are the right one and others are wrong. Having the belief that you are chosen from on high definitely does not encourage tolerance towards the "lesser" unenlightened folk


And I think you missed my point. The only question is was it intentional or not.
:roll:


I know exactly what you said, and I am simply saying that it is not relevant. Yeah, its your right to be a huge dick. That doesn't mean you *should*. What acting that way to prove a point (like many do...) amounts to is vainglorious, ignoble self promotion disguised as "exercising one's rights". Common sense and human communication protocols should take precedence, not the fact that you *can* be a giant douche. All you would be demonstrating is... that you are a giant douche. Now do you understand?


Yes, now I understand that you are a giant douche. Thanks for finally admitting it. Now the healing can begin..... :D


When you have nothing to come back with (not that you ever do, since the height of your debate capabilities are "I know you are, but what am I?" and the classic "You are just proving my point/making me more conservative") I guess the time for direct insults begins.


Insults, whether direct or indirect, are the essence of PPR.
Insult away! :D


I'm going to quote you on this next time I notice you criticize someone for using insults or accuse someone of trolling, because I have seen you do both before. You are illuminating your hypocrisy better than anyone else ever could!


_________________
Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


Raptor
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27 Jun 2012, 10:05 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Thus they believe intolerance is some sort of virtue of individual liberty.

It is an individual liberty plain and simple. It may not be popular but nothing says that liberties and freedoms have to be.


That is not the point at all, the point is they hold something as a virtue based on their misunderstanding of tolerance to begin with. For instance, I am tolerant of Muslims, but I honestly really, really dislike their religion which is almost inseparable from their politics. That does not mean I will make things difficult for them as individuals. I will give them their space so long as they do not tread on mine, because I value humans not based on their religion or politics but by the fact that... they are human. Intolerance is not a virtue, though I suppose religion does play a part in making it seem so, since all religions inevitably claim *they* are the right one and others are wrong. Having the belief that you are chosen from on high definitely does not encourage tolerance towards the "lesser" unenlightened folk


And I think you missed my point. The only question is was it intentional or not.
:roll:


I know exactly what you said, and I am simply saying that it is not relevant. Yeah, its your right to be a huge dick. That doesn't mean you *should*. What acting that way to prove a point (like many do...) amounts to is vainglorious, ignoble self promotion disguised as "exercising one's rights". Common sense and human communication protocols should take precedence, not the fact that you *can* be a giant douche. All you would be demonstrating is... that you are a giant douche. Now do you understand?


Yes, now I understand that you are a giant douche. Thanks for finally admitting it. Now the healing can begin..... :D


When you have nothing to come back with (not that you ever do, since the height of your debate capabilities are "I know you are, but what am I?" and the classic "You are just proving my point/making me more conservative") I guess the time for direct insults begins.


Insults, whether direct or indirect, are the essence of PPR.
Insult away! :D


I'm going to quote you on this next time I notice you criticize someone for using insults or accuse someone of trolling, because I have seen you do both before. You are illuminating your hypocrisy better than anyone else ever could!


:roll: :roll:
Duh, if I was sensitive I wouldn't be here.
Once again I think it's time for you to make a trip to the drug store for some Midol. You seem rather crampy lately......



Vigilans
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27 Jun 2012, 10:18 pm

Raptor wrote:
:roll: :roll:
Duh, if I was sensitive I wouldn't be here.
Once again I think it's time for you to make a trip to the drug store for some Midol. You seem rather crampy lately......


Who said anything about sensitivity?

I think its time for you to start coming up with better comebacks. You should also take a break from being an as*hole every day, it must be tiring you out. That is probably the reason for that vacuous hole where your intellect should be


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Opportunities multiply as they are seized. -Sun Tzu
Nature creates few men brave, industry and training makes many -Machiavelli
You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do


Raptor
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27 Jun 2012, 10:52 pm

Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
:roll: :roll:
Duh, if I was sensitive I wouldn't be here.
Once again I think it's time for you to make a trip to the drug store for some Midol. You seem rather crampy lately......


Who said anything about sensitivity?

I think its time for you to start coming up with better comebacks. You should also take a break from being an as*hole every day, it must be tiring you out. That is probably the reason for that vacuous hole where your intellect should be


My comebacks are just better than yours, Vivian.



Joker
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27 Jun 2012, 10:54 pm

Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
:roll: :roll:
Duh, if I was sensitive I wouldn't be here.
Once again I think it's time for you to make a trip to the drug store for some Midol. You seem rather crampy lately......


Who said anything about sensitivity?

I think its time for you to start coming up with better comebacks. You should also take a break from being an as*hole every day, it must be tiring you out. That is probably the reason for that vacuous hole where your intellect should be


My comebacks are just better than yours, Vivian.


That's because Americans are the best at trash talking.



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27 Jun 2012, 10:59 pm

Raptor wrote:
Vigilans wrote:
Raptor wrote:
:roll: :roll:
Duh, if I was sensitive I wouldn't be here.
Once again I think it's time for you to make a trip to the drug store for some Midol. You seem rather crampy lately......


Who said anything about sensitivity?

I think its time for you to start coming up with better comebacks. You should also take a break from being an as*hole every day, it must be tiring you out. That is probably the reason for that vacuous hole where your intellect should be


My comebacks are just better than yours, Vivian.


Unimaginative? Check. Sexist? Check. Predictable? Check. I see you've written your location under your profile, good, good...

*Scribbles some data down, checks his notes*

Raptor, you may want to sit down. Our survey indicates that you might be a Living Stereotype, as opposed to a human being. Side effects may include a total lack of free will, sub-sapient reasoning capabilities, and unchangeable patterns of behavior. Hope is not lost, however! Education in the fine and noble art of debate, combined with a few years of growing up, may permit you to upgrade to fully sapient thought, though I'm afraid that your particular Living Stereotype (Southern Gun Cultist) never quite fully shakes the full extent of their automatic behaviors.

Hope exists. Contact colleges and universities to seek therapy for Living Stereotype Syndrome, and you too might become a human being.

I'm Lord_Gareth, and I approved this message.


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