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Does Democracy Really Work Since Only the Rich and Powerful are Satisfied?
Yes 12%  12%  [ 18 ]
Yes 12%  12%  [ 18 ]
No 21%  21%  [ 31 ]
No 21%  21%  [ 31 ]
I Am President Bush and You Have Violated the Patriot Act 17%  17%  [ 25 ]
I Am President Bush and You Have Violated the Patriot Act 17%  17%  [ 25 ]
Total votes : 148

Assassin
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25 Nov 2005, 4:46 pm

hmmm


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Psychlone
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25 Nov 2005, 5:11 pm

Assassin wrote:
Psychlone wrote:
You can't possibly have communism without stealing the property of people. Stealing is wrong. Therefore Communism is inherently evil and there is just no other way around it.


Stealing is not inherantly evil becos theres nothing basic morality that says some people shoud have more than others.

Stealing from someone who has LESS than you IS dispiccable, however (something a lot of major corporations have been known to do, so how can you defend capitalism based on the idea of stealing being wrong?)


When are corporations stealing?



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25 Nov 2005, 5:17 pm

Lets see...

Aggressive bisness policy (deliberately putting smaller bisnesses out of bisness, thereby steeling those peeple's livelihood), exploitation in the Third World (stealing peeples rite to a decent life), ect


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Happeh
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25 Nov 2005, 7:46 pm

agmoie wrote:
You could also say that the Third Reich was not a TRULY National Socialist country and that Hitler was not real Nazi like Strasser
for instance,who did not support war against Russia or the Eastern bloc.


You could say that Communism is not really Russian also.

Did you know that Karl Marx was jewish? They never say that when they villify communism. They say communism sucks and russians suck, but they never say people like Karl Marx suck.

I think the Russians got a bad rap. Just like the USA is getting a bad rap. A Jewish person, Karl Marx, made the Russians well known for Communism the same way the Israeli loyal Neo Cons have made Americans known for the invasion of Iraq, world wide kidnap and torture.



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26 Nov 2005, 4:07 pm

Communism isnt Russian. It was invented by a German guy, and what went on in Russia coudnt in any way honestly be called communism by someone who new what it was.


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Lost
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26 Nov 2005, 5:03 pm

Just to elaborate on what Assassin wrote, the german born Karl Marx was a leading figure in the idea of communism. Vladimir Lenin based his concept of communism on Marx's writings.

Although the theory was based on sound principles, Marx was highly biased in his writings against certain social classes which created a flawed outlook in his view of communism.

Lenin himself introduced further biases. Trotsky and Lenin further perverted communism away from its ideals and produced the oppressive police state form that the USSR became. In this form it was doomed to fail which it did.

It is all very well to praise communism but it is as flawed as capitalism. They share one common problem - humans. People will corrupt any social structure. Until this factor is taken into account, all social structures will eventually fail.



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27 Nov 2005, 1:59 am

Lost wrote:
It is all very well to praise communism but it is as flawed as capitalism. They share one common problem - humans. People will corrupt any social structure. Until this factor is taken into account, all social structures will eventually fail.


I think, perhaps, the biggest "human flaw" in all social structures is greed. People always want more than they already have no matter how satisfied they are.
Any opinions on that?



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27 Nov 2005, 8:24 am

a valid point


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Darth_Malik
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27 Nov 2005, 5:34 pm

Communism and socialism have not, will not, and will never work.

Communism makes people weak. Everyone gets the same no matter how hard you work.

Despite what you think a larger section of the population under democracy have a higher standard of living then people under socialism or communism.

It is our passions that drive us. It is greed that powers innovation, and despite what they say on the surface it is really deeper motivations that drives them.

Our base human nature will not change, and in the end nobody is equal and not everyone is entitled to what some deserve.

Capitalism will not become extinct, and only those who hold onto the flawed philosophies of communism and socialism will truly die.

Capitalism is the great natural selection of economies. Yes, eventually a small portion of the population gets richer, and richer, but in the end their greed is balanced out. There is a scientific equation here, and eventually when conditions of the common man drop to a certain point there will be revolution, riots, death, and a new order established. Look at france. Thats what happens when the balance is shifted. Rise up and kill the rich and the process will begin a new.



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27 Nov 2005, 5:44 pm

Why is it that every nation that calls itself "Communist" doesn't have democracy?


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27 Nov 2005, 8:45 pm

Mithrandir wrote:
Why is it that every nation that calls itself "Communist" doesn't have democracy?


Maybe because the two are inherently incompatible?

Maybe you are confusing Democracy with Liberty. Democracy and Communism are probably compatible, but Democracy is by its very nature a tyranny of the majority. Therefore, Democracy and Liberty are incompatible. But A tyranny of the majority might go well with a tyranny of the proletariat since the Proletariat are the majority, aren't they?

Anyway, Democracy and Communism both suck, imho. Give me Liberty over the two any day. :D



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28 Nov 2005, 10:39 am

Darth_Malik wrote:
Despite what you think a larger section of the population under democracy have a higher standard of living then people under socialism or communism.


Dont you mean the people under capitalism, rather than democracy? Theres nothing that says a communist country cant also be democratic. Anyway in answer to what you were TRYING to say, even if thats true, theres nobody under socialism or communism whose worse off than the peeple who are WORST off under capitalism.

Quote:
Our base human nature will not change, and in the end nobody is equal and not everyone is entitled to what some deserve.


FASCIST

If some people are entitled to something, then EVERYONE is entitled to it.

Full Stop.

Quote:
It is our passions that drive us. It is greed that powers innovation, and despite what they say on the surface it is really deeper motivations that drives them.

Our base human nature will not change


Some people say AS is the next evolution. If thats the case, then Human is ALREADY changing - AS people are inherantly not as self-serving as most NTs.

Quote:
Capitalism is the great natural selection of economies. Yes, eventually a small portion of the population gets richer, and richer, but in the end their greed is balanced out. There is a scientific equation here, and eventually when conditions of the common man drop to a certain point there will be revolution, riots, death, and a new order established. Look at france. Thats what happens when the balance is shifted. Rise up and kill the rich and the process will begin a new.


When something that can quite easily be done quickly and bloodlessly takes centuries and costs dozens if not hundreds of lives, and then goes on to be reversed anyway, that can never be a good thing. In communism, the process dosent get reversed, and the revolution only has to happen once.


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28 Nov 2005, 10:43 am

Mithrandir wrote:
Why is it that every nation that calls itself "Communist" doesn't have democracy?


Becos one of the few major drawbacks with communism is that it is incredibly hard to set up. Most communist movements that succeed in the initial stages decide to take the easy route once they get into a position to do so, and put one person in charge instead of having to deal with all the burocracy involved in installing a communist economic system under a democratic political system. Inevitably, the dictators get comfortable with their power and decide not to give it up.


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28 Nov 2005, 4:09 pm

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Communism and socialism have not, will not, and will never work.


I'm afraid, Dark Lord Malik, that unlike Master Yoda, you cannot see into the future, so how do you know what will and will not work.



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28 Nov 2005, 4:16 pm

lol


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30 Nov 2005, 2:36 am

RobertN wrote:
Quote:
Communism and socialism have not, will not, and will never work.


I'm afraid, Dark Lord Malik, that unlike Master Yoda, you cannot see into the future, so how do you know what will and will not work.


Perhaps. But human nature remains almost unchanged over centuries. If that is any indicator of what is yet to come...well draw ones own conclusions.