The Gun Control Challenge

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Hahahahaha awesome!

When I first heard that multiple NYPD officers shot 9 bystanders, my first thought was if they switched to AA-12s. I'm guessing some officers are going to have a lot more time to play CoD and Bloomberg will hopefully disappear from the gun control debate like LAPD chief Beck did after the machine gun and .45 auto thefts that ended up in Mexico. Unfortunately Bloomberg isn't known for discrete handling of such matters.

Dox47,

Ive only read about 1/2 of the 6 pages here, I honestly dont have time to read more. You make good points and good arguments. As for your challenge, I give you kudos for going the route you did. Very clever.... I disagree with it on a philosophical level, even if I enjoy it academically, but clever regardless. Probably the most sophisticated bit of trolling (As defined by posting something specifically looking for a targeted response, not necessarily malicious or nefarious in nature) Ive seen in a very long time. *Tips hat*.

Getting into the meat of the issue, I would however posit that, in regards to your challenge, the U.S. having the unique characteristics that you so eloquently pointed out (And also makes it incomparable to really any other nation by the standards of your challenge), will require a unique solution to its violence issues, gun related or not..... And I agree its a cultural issue, not a Gun issue.

I also agree with Visagrunt in part. I wont say that you're intentionally trying to kill counterargument, I think I see an honest attempt at disarming over-zealous witch-hunting in the name of gun control. But you do seem rather lackluster yourself in ideas, though you do seem to agree that the current situation is not a good or happy one.... We all agree here that less gun violence is a desirable outcome yes? (I in no means mean to suggest that you wish the opposite). I would also agree with him that an inability to trust government (Though I dont agree theres alot of problems within our government) when they're the only ones that are ever going to have enough power to make any kind of effective policy or enforcement, probably wont get us very far either (At this point, all I can say is, make sure you teach your kids to vote responsibly, and if you can, vote for someone that will reinstate Civics classes...).

That said, politics, being the means by which we all agree to live together with each other and *hopefully* not kill each other in the process, tends to require compromise. So let me ask you this: If some one, or group, could convince you to partial controls on gun sales, say license for possession on all sales after XXX Date in the future, maybe with a phased program of back dating for owners at gun ranges over the course of XX years, and it could be demonstrated that confiscation would be guarded against, is there any way you could agree to such a scheme? Feel free to modify this example as you see fit to something you would or would not agree to.

I could even suggest a rider to the above proposal. One of the only Ideas I ever heard from the gun lobby I actually liked was "Make all guns legal, just charge $1000 in tax for every bullet sold". Why dont we run with that, and reduce price of ammo to Licensed Gun Possessors to normal levels, and rediculous amounts for all non-licensed owners/users? I realize that this will be difficult to enforce (though honestly, if we can require farmers to sign, date, and stamp every purchase of fertalizer at every store/warehouse/outlet for such, regulated and monitored by the FBI, I don't know why the ATF (is it still the ATF? or is that part of Homeland security now? Cant remember) couldn't come up with a way of doing it for bullets even if it isn't perfect), and Im open to input on the idea, again feel free to change/modify anything. In exchange we ask that all gun owners, perspective or otherwise sit through say, 3 1-2 hour classes in gun safety and care, provided free for say, the first 2-3 years of the program, and a nominal, subsidised fee afterwards (Paid at least in part by any revenue generated by the tax on bullets)?

I also thought Id point out that cars are actually licensed in addition to drivers. Ever try driving without a "License plate" or in-date tabs? Or go through emissions with a Pass Engine/Exhaust reading but a lit "Check Engine light w/ Trouble Codes? State regulates vehicles as much as it regulates drivers. Drivers just get to pay for the cars instead of cars paying for themselves, depending on your point of view. And that in this line of thinking, a car being *almost* as easy to kill a person with (Though alot more gruesome, and we all know how much our culture hates getting our hands "icky", or washing our cars for that matter if we can avoid it after spending $50,000 on it). I would also point out that we actually make people take a 2 part test including a practical test before we give them a license to operate a vehicle, with more complicated and in depth tests for bigger, or (In theory) less safe vehicles (Motorcycles, CDL's, etc etc).

Finally, Ill add That mostly I agree with alot of what you're saying. Id rather see armed militias then unarmed protesters massacred by police forces. Im not saying I have answers. But we do have alot of guns, alot of gun violence, and maybe if we had *Some* stricter controls, if not directly reducing crime, perhaps they would foster a better culture around guns. Billy bob is more likely to look after his guns so his little red headed Billy Jr doesn't get into his gun closet if every one of those bullets cost him $1000, or he had to take a bunch of classes just to own the guns in the first place I would wager (Though again, this about impossible to prove within your challenge). Just have to keep looking for something new that will fit the US. In the end, probably nobody will be specifically happy, but if we can agree to a compromise, we'll be happier if gun-violence goes down yes?

Aldran
Edited about 10 minutes after post to fix errors and add one sentence.

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2408899,00.asp

http://defensedistributed.com/

The above Photo Shop photo got me curious enough to go digging. With the advances in 3d printing technology I wouldn't be surprised if this will happen sooner rather then later too. Honestly, I dont see it as a bad thing, and I still like the idea of charging alot for bullets. Can't print Cordite/explosives. At the very least something like this will bring matters to a head.

This reminds me of the Gun-Engineer that was found dead in Europe after it was confirmed he was trying to sell Iraq a gun that could launch orbital trajectory shells and, in theory, hit targets like New York city.... Forgive me for not remembering his name, Im horrendous with those.

Regardless, imagine another "Arab spring" with printable guns.... Want to foster a revolution? Air Drop a Laptop, a 3d printer or two, and 20 tons of Bullets.....

Aldran

A printer or software manufacturer could make it so it won't produce configurations that may be a gun. However, this may go over poorly if it creates limitations on other types of projects, and it would still be possible to 'fool' the system and produce a object that only requires a few manual machining steps to finish. Machining plastic is uncommon, but with many it can be done. Either that, or many projects aren't machined from a single CNC computer file anyway.