Let's discuss fur

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Here is something else I'm wondering about those who are ok with leather but not fur. Now keep in mind that I eat meat and wear leather and fur and I'm ok with that (but not skinning anything alive, that's horrible - I even feel guilty when I eat a lobster because it's boiled alive).

People say that leather is the by product of the meat industry so the rest of the animal is used, but fur is only for wearing and not eating, so it's not necessary. Well to be honest, it's not absolutely neccessary to eat meat so if someone is against the deaths of animals when it's not absolutely neccessary (being put down when sick, being shot when attacking someone, being killed for food in situations where it is absolutely neccessary), how is it logical to use the argument that leather is ok and fur isn't because leather is a by product of meat and fur isn't neccessary? Thats my first question.

I'm not trying to argue vegetarianism, so please lets not make it into that. I'm asking about using that argument.

Also, the furs that I have were not bought new. They were bought second hand so whoever bought them first would be the one that created the space for the store to buy another one, creating the need for the manufacturer to kill more animals to make more furs. My wearing them and buying them second hand in no way caused any furrier to order more stock. It's actually no different than PETA using furs that people donate to them. So, my owning and wearing fur hasn't directly made any animals die the way it would if I bought a new full length Blackglama.

So my second question is, how is me buying them second hand and wearing them bad, and how does that hurt any animals at all?

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Some animals are killed for the fur, and some animals are killed for fur and meat. The best example is the furseal hunt. There are lots of seals in the North Atlantic. In Greenland they are hunted for their meat and the skin is sold. The meat is really good, quite gamey, very dark and very healthy. The skins are made to beautiful jackets. This trade is part of the inuit culture and is helping people to survive in the small settlements. http://www.greatgreenland.com/index.php ... 85&lang=en

There is also a sealhunt in Canada where the skins are used, I do not know about the meat. There is probably not a market, unfortunately.

The hunting methods differ but both hunts are sustainable and humane.

I would at any time choose to eat the meat and wear the skin instead of accepting culling of animals (culling is where animals are killed because they are viewed as unvanted, they are then burned or otherwise disposed of). Many countries are now talking about culling of seals because there are a lot of them in the N. Atlantic. I really do find that a vaste of resources.

I'm against killing animals as intelligent as foxes or mustelids. Furthermore, when it comes to less intelligent animals (eg. sheep and cattle), I'm against killing them as well if we're not going to use the whole animal.

I'm curious to know if any pro-fur people have ever seen a commercial fur operation?Did you know it takes 40 chinchillas to make ONE fur coat?And people don't eat the chinchillas or other fur bearers.They live in horrible isolated cages so they don't fight and damage their hide.My ex's Dad was a professional trapper so you don't even want to know about the leg hold traps,but it is true that an animal will chew it's own leg off to escape.I don't have a problem with used furs or by products from meat production but if you can't eat it don't skin it.
I get that native cultures in cold climates rely on local animals but they mostly use all the parts.In modern societies there are too many good alternatives.The Dalai Lama told the people of Tibet and those of Buddhist belief "If you are wearing fur then I am sitting here ashamed".The people of Tibet burned their furs.

I'm not opposed to the fur industry per sae, however I am appalled by the behaviour of Chinese fur harvesters.

Their methods are unnecessarilly cruel, it is commonplace to skin dogs and minxes alive before they are left to bleed to death.

I guess the point I wanted to make with the 40 chinchillas is that it was 40 living beings not one as when you harvest a large animal,40 times the suffering and no I don't agree with the beef industries treatment of cattle,I've seen the feed lots outside of Greely Co,and I've got relations that have Tyson poultry houses.My family also hunts and I have helped in the butchering but I can't kill anything because of my beliefs.I don't buy meat but i don't judge others for their moral choices.Once we were cavemen and we had no choice.Now we do.I just think that all beings have the right to be happy and that usually doesn't mean being eaten.
On a lighter note I saw a real humorous anti-fur ad(Italian I believe), that had a very proud lovely naked women with a very BIG bush,the caption read" This is the only fur I'll ever wear."

Well, before we get too far down the road of live skinning, let's bear in mind that Swiss Animal Protection (who released the video that is most often cited as evidence of these practices) refused to release its original, unedited footage. While I am not prepared to accept Chinese denials at face value, neither am I prepared to assume that these videos were not staged.

I don't see an issue with fur, leather or meat. However, I do think that such industries should have to treat their animals in a humane fashion. This may seem contradictory, however, it's highlighted by the difference in a grass fed, cow being slaughtered for meat then processed for its leather and a snake being skinned alive.