You know you're a left-wing moron when
13 Oct 2012, 1:13 pm
DancingDanny wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
TM wrote:
- You're obsessed with individual differences, yet love collectivist ideologies.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
I get the first four stereotypes but that last one is confusing me as it applies more to the right than the left.
Actually, marshall that applies only to the left, people on the right tend to be rather cynical of politicians in general, doesn't matter what their professed political ideology is.
Isn't there some cognitive dissonance between this and the general attitude on the right that the left are made up dictator's boot lappers and that in our love for the Iron Fist we managed to produce not only the Soviets but the Nazis, their diametrical opposities?
The nazis and the USSR were not opposites. In fact, national socialism was seen as left-wing until the late 40's, when Stalin's henchmen started playing the nazi cards to discredit capitalism.
13 Oct 2012, 1:17 pm
DancingDanny wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
TM wrote:
- You're obsessed with individual differences, yet love collectivist ideologies.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
I get the first four stereotypes but that last one is confusing me as it applies more to the right than the left.
Actually, marshall that applies only to the left, people on the right tend to be rather cynical of politicians in general, doesn't matter what their professed political ideology is.
Isn't there some cognitive dissonance between this and the general attitude on the right that the left are made up dictator's boot lappers and that in our love for the Iron Fist we managed to produce not only the Soviets but the Nazis, their diametrical opposities?
Believe it or not, the Nazis are actually more in tune with modern liberalism. Considering people on the right are very "get government the hell out of my life," and Nazism is about government taking control of everything, the two are extreme polar opposites. One question here is are we talking about the European Right or the American Right, cause there are some fundamental differences between European Conservatism and American Conservatism.
13 Oct 2012, 1:27 pm
Kurgan wrote:
DancingDanny wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
TM wrote:
- You're obsessed with individual differences, yet love collectivist ideologies.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
I get the first four stereotypes but that last one is confusing me as it applies more to the right than the left.
Actually, marshall that applies only to the left, people on the right tend to be rather cynical of politicians in general, doesn't matter what their professed political ideology is.
Isn't there some cognitive dissonance between this and the general attitude on the right that the left are made up dictator's boot lappers and that in our love for the Iron Fist we managed to produce not only the Soviets but the Nazis, their diametrical opposities?
The nazis and the USSR were not opposites. In fact, national socialism was seen as left-wing until the late 40's, when Stalin's henchmen started playing the nazi cards to discredit capitalism.
Seen and what it really stood for are two different things. Anything that was left wing about the Nazis was murdered in the Night of the Long Knives.
13 Oct 2012, 1:30 pm
Inuyasha wrote:
DancingDanny wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
TM wrote:
- You're obsessed with individual differences, yet love collectivist ideologies.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
I get the first four stereotypes but that last one is confusing me as it applies more to the right than the left.
Actually, marshall that applies only to the left, people on the right tend to be rather cynical of politicians in general, doesn't matter what their professed political ideology is.
Isn't there some cognitive dissonance between this and the general attitude on the right that the left are made up dictator's boot lappers and that in our love for the Iron Fist we managed to produce not only the Soviets but the Nazis, their diametrical opposities?
Believe it or not, the Nazis are actually more in tune with modern liberalism. Considering people on the right are very "get government the hell out of my life," and Nazism is about government taking control of everything, the two are extreme polar opposites. One question here is are we talking about the European Right or the American Right, cause there are some fundamental differences between European Conservatism and American Conservatism.
What modern liberalism? You mean that Roosevelt was secretly a Nazi while fighting for the very survival of democracy at home and aboard and for the survival of capitalism at home with the New Deal? What exactly is your historical cut off for good liberalism and this bad National Socialist conspiracy?
13 Oct 2012, 1:32 pm
DancingDanny wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
DancingDanny wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
TM wrote:
- You're obsessed with individual differences, yet love collectivist ideologies.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
I get the first four stereotypes but that last one is confusing me as it applies more to the right than the left.
Actually, marshall that applies only to the left, people on the right tend to be rather cynical of politicians in general, doesn't matter what their professed political ideology is.
Isn't there some cognitive dissonance between this and the general attitude on the right that the left are made up dictator's boot lappers and that in our love for the Iron Fist we managed to produce not only the Soviets but the Nazis, their diametrical opposities?
The nazis and the USSR were not opposites. In fact, national socialism was seen as left-wing until the late 40's, when Stalin's henchmen started playing the nazi cards to discredit capitalism.
Seen and what it really stood for are two different things. Anything that was left wing about the Nazis was murdered in the Night of the Long Knives.
I suspect that it depends on your weighting, what places the German National socialist party to the left or right? The fact that they were racist, or every single other thing about their ideology. Of course, it requires that you buy the premise "the left cannot be racist" which is obviously a false premise.
13 Oct 2012, 1:37 pm
DancingDanny wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
DancingDanny wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
TM wrote:
- You're obsessed with individual differences, yet love collectivist ideologies.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
I get the first four stereotypes but that last one is confusing me as it applies more to the right than the left.
Actually, marshall that applies only to the left, people on the right tend to be rather cynical of politicians in general, doesn't matter what their professed political ideology is.
Isn't there some cognitive dissonance between this and the general attitude on the right that the left are made up dictator's boot lappers and that in our love for the Iron Fist we managed to produce not only the Soviets but the Nazis, their diametrical opposities?
Believe it or not, the Nazis are actually more in tune with modern liberalism. Considering people on the right are very "get government the hell out of my life," and Nazism is about government taking control of everything, the two are extreme polar opposites. One question here is are we talking about the European Right or the American Right, cause there are some fundamental differences between European Conservatism and American Conservatism.
What modern liberalism? You mean that Roosevelt was secretly a Nazi while fighting for the very survival of democracy at home and aboard and for the survival of capitalism at home with the New Deal? What exactly is your historical cut off for good liberalism and this bad National Socialist conspiracy?
I am not implying Roosevelt is a Nazi, far from it. Roosevelt was a big-government liberal, but I wouldn't say he was quite as left wing, and you are missing the key reasons as to why the Soviets and the Nazis hated each other so much.
In all reality the Nazis and the Soviets were very much alike, however there were some very minute differences in their core power base, also neither group wanted to play second fiddle to the other, and they were thus bound to clash with each other.
13 Oct 2012, 1:37 pm
DancingDanny wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
DancingDanny wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
TM wrote:
- You're obsessed with individual differences, yet love collectivist ideologies.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
I get the first four stereotypes but that last one is confusing me as it applies more to the right than the left.
Actually, marshall that applies only to the left, people on the right tend to be rather cynical of politicians in general, doesn't matter what their professed political ideology is.
Isn't there some cognitive dissonance between this and the general attitude on the right that the left are made up dictator's boot lappers and that in our love for the Iron Fist we managed to produce not only the Soviets but the Nazis, their diametrical opposities?
The nazis and the USSR were not opposites. In fact, national socialism was seen as left-wing until the late 40's, when Stalin's henchmen started playing the nazi cards to discredit capitalism.
Seen and what it really stood for are two different things. Anything that was left wing about the Nazis was murdered in the Night of the Long Knives.
What makes national socialism more right-wing than Stalinism? Derivatives of Marxist-Leninism seeks to eliminate class segregation by class struggle and dictatorship of the Proletariat ("all the animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"); fascism aims to do the same by forcing the classes to cooperate.
13 Oct 2012, 1:38 pm
DancingDanny wrote:
Well, the racism was kind of their foundation. Nothing about National Socialism can be believed in unless if you believe in the Aryan Race myth and that the Jews are the enemy of Aryans.
I'm glad that you say so, because the foundation of their ideological framework is socialism with with Jews instead of the Bourgeoisie. You can kind of call the NSDAP the communist party with race struggles rather than class struggles.
13 Oct 2012, 1:42 pm
TM wrote:
DancingDanny wrote:
Well, the racism was kind of their foundation. Nothing about National Socialism can be believed in unless if you believe in the Aryan Race myth and that the Jews are the enemy of Aryans.
I'm glad that you say so, because the foundation of their ideological framework is socialism with with Jews instead of the Bourgeoisie. You can kind of call the NSDAP the communist party with race struggles rather than class struggles.
There were plenty of race struggles in Soviet Russia as well. Holodomor or the cossack genocide are good examples of this.
The communist countries were also notorious for their persecutions of homosexuals; some even punishing them by concentration camps or executions.
13 Oct 2012, 1:44 pm
Inuyasha wrote:
DancingDanny wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
DancingDanny wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
TM wrote:
- You're obsessed with individual differences, yet love collectivist ideologies.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
I get the first four stereotypes but that last one is confusing me as it applies more to the right than the left.
Actually, marshall that applies only to the left, people on the right tend to be rather cynical of politicians in general, doesn't matter what their professed political ideology is.
Isn't there some cognitive dissonance between this and the general attitude on the right that the left are made up dictator's boot lappers and that in our love for the Iron Fist we managed to produce not only the Soviets but the Nazis, their diametrical opposities?
Believe it or not, the Nazis are actually more in tune with modern liberalism. Considering people on the right are very "get government the hell out of my life," and Nazism is about government taking control of everything, the two are extreme polar opposites. One question here is are we talking about the European Right or the American Right, cause there are some fundamental differences between European Conservatism and American Conservatism.
What modern liberalism? You mean that Roosevelt was secretly a Nazi while fighting for the very survival of democracy at home and aboard and for the survival of capitalism at home with the New Deal? What exactly is your historical cut off for good liberalism and this bad National Socialist conspiracy?
I am not implying Roosevelt is a Nazi, far from it. Roosevelt was a big-government liberal, but I wouldn't say he was quite as left wing, and you are missing the key reasons as to why the Soviets and the Nazis hated each other so much.
In all reality the Nazis and the Soviets were very much alike, however there were some very minute differences in their core power base, also neither group wanted to play second fiddle to the other, and they were thus bound to clash with each other.
Oh, I can agree with that. Nazi/Soviet clash was inevitable because of professional jealousy but where are all of these Stalinists in contemporary American political culture?
13 Oct 2012, 1:47 pm
Kurgan wrote:
What makes national socialism more right-wing than Stalinism? Derivatives of Marxist-Leninism seeks to eliminate class segregation by class struggle and dictatorship of the Proletariat ("all the animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"); fascism aims to do the same by forcing the classes to cooperate.
Agreed.
I will be fair and point out that you could argue that the European far-right may have some similar aspects; that is entirely due to Europe's history of kings, nobility, etc. The American right has no real connection to Nazism because the American Conservatism puts enormous emphasis on the Constitution and self-reliance, which is the polar opposite of Nazism and Communism.
The cultural divergence caused by the American Revolution essentially split American Conservatism away from European Conservatism. There are some similarities, but there are also fundamental differences.
13 Oct 2012, 1:50 pm
Kurgan wrote:
DancingDanny wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
DancingDanny wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
TM wrote:
- You're obsessed with individual differences, yet love collectivist ideologies.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
I get the first four stereotypes but that last one is confusing me as it applies more to the right than the left.
Actually, marshall that applies only to the left, people on the right tend to be rather cynical of politicians in general, doesn't matter what their professed political ideology is.
Isn't there some cognitive dissonance between this and the general attitude on the right that the left are made up dictator's boot lappers and that in our love for the Iron Fist we managed to produce not only the Soviets but the Nazis, their diametrical opposities?
The nazis and the USSR were not opposites. In fact, national socialism was seen as left-wing until the late 40's, when Stalin's henchmen started playing the nazi cards to discredit capitalism.
Seen and what it really stood for are two different things. Anything that was left wing about the Nazis was murdered in the Night of the Long Knives.
What makes national socialism more right-wing than Stalinism? Derivatives of Marxist-Leninism seeks to eliminate class segregation by class struggle and dictatorship of the Proletariat ("all the animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"); fascism aims to do the same by forcing the classes to cooperate.
Private property. The national socialists never abolished private property and their framework was for using a prole/bourgeoisie cooperation to crush the petit bourgeoisie because Hitler and his peers saw that the middle class didn't make good national socialists.
13 Oct 2012, 1:53 pm
TM wrote:
DancingDanny wrote:
Well, the racism was kind of their foundation. Nothing about National Socialism can be believed in unless if you believe in the Aryan Race myth and that the Jews are the enemy of Aryans.
I'm glad that you say so, because the foundation of their ideological framework is socialism with with Jews instead of the Bourgeoisie. You can kind of call the NSDAP the communist party with race struggles rather than class struggles.
I actually read this Manifesto of a National Bolshevik political party that made the same point about the national socialists trading the class dialectic for a racial one.
13 Oct 2012, 1:59 pm
DancingDanny wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
DancingDanny wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
DancingDanny wrote:
Inuyasha wrote:
marshall wrote:
TM wrote:
- You're obsessed with individual differences, yet love collectivist ideologies.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
- Regardless of what's wrong, the entity to blame are always corporations.
- You believe that everyone who is successful is a criminal that hasn't gotten caught yet.
- You believe that a rich person commits crime out of malice, whereas a poor person is a victim of society.
- You believe that "more government" is the solution to all problems.
- You believe that elected officials are better than people with objectively established merits in their field.
I get the first four stereotypes but that last one is confusing me as it applies more to the right than the left.
Actually, marshall that applies only to the left, people on the right tend to be rather cynical of politicians in general, doesn't matter what their professed political ideology is.
Isn't there some cognitive dissonance between this and the general attitude on the right that the left are made up dictator's boot lappers and that in our love for the Iron Fist we managed to produce not only the Soviets but the Nazis, their diametrical opposities?
The nazis and the USSR were not opposites. In fact, national socialism was seen as left-wing until the late 40's, when Stalin's henchmen started playing the nazi cards to discredit capitalism.
Seen and what it really stood for are two different things. Anything that was left wing about the Nazis was murdered in the Night of the Long Knives.
What makes national socialism more right-wing than Stalinism? Derivatives of Marxist-Leninism seeks to eliminate class segregation by class struggle and dictatorship of the Proletariat ("all the animals are equal, but some are more equal than others"); fascism aims to do the same by forcing the classes to cooperate.
Private property. The national socialists never abolished private property and their framework was for using a prole/bourgeoisie cooperation to crush the petit bourgeoisie because Hitler and his peers saw that the middle class didn't make good national socialists.
The Third Reich was actually based on planned economy. Planned economy as a permanent solution conflicts with the core value of capitalism.
This private property was strictly regulated and heavily taxed, not to mention the fact that the government organized industries into cartels and banned competition. All foreign (and some German) industries were nationalized.
Private property was allowed during the NEP in the USSR as well and it's allowed in all communist countries except for North Korea today.
13 Oct 2012, 2:11 pm
DancingDanny wrote:
Private property. The national socialists never abolished private property and their framework was for using a prole/bourgeoisie cooperation to crush the petit bourgeoisie because Hitler and his peers saw that the middle class didn't make good national socialists.
While they didn't seize private property at the time, it could be argued that it would eventually happen. Unlike Russia where about everything was owned by the nobility, up until the Revolution; Germans had more of a history of private property ownership. If they had tried to seize all property, they would have had a national revolt.
The fact of the matter is that the Nazis seized control of all large industry, as well as the large businesses, prior to the war so wartime can't be used as an excuse.
In American Conservatism, the idea of government seizing control of industry and business is considered to be rather alarming.
