Solipsism, as a path to morality

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I'm not a solipsist, but they do have a point, to the extent that the one thing we can really know exists is our own perception of things. Suppose though that I am the only true being in the universe (or to mind f**k you and myself even more, suppose you, the person who is reading this (not me), is the only true being) and that everything around me is a hallucination? Does that mean I should go on a killing spree? I don't really think solipsism necessarily exempts you from a basis for morality anymore than any other set of existential assumptions, and I have to make the argument that the environment that the solipsist finds himself in, though a hallucination, is actually an extension of them. If everything around them was hallucinated, what would be the true them? Would it be their body? I don't think so, being that the body would be just as much of a hallucination as a star 1000 light years away from them. Its just their body is simply more of the focal point of the universal hallucination. Would "them" be the brain? Well, if the material world is all just an abstraction, anything made of tangible matter, then I'd have to argue that the brain is just as much an abstraction since its made of tangible, material stuff too. In the end, the hallucination itself is the true self in this thought experiment.

If they're the soul focal point of all of existence, that's all they are, is a focal point. In the end, though, the solipsist should still seek harmony between the hallucination (the whole) and the focal focal point of this hallucination (the self). Even if the rain forest or other people is not the focal point of consciousness and appears to be object, the solipsist should still seek to nurture their environment, because the environment is a kaleidoscoped reflection of them. If the solipsist is right, they're the whole universe, and what better way to give meaning to all of reality than to strive to bring harmony within the cosmos. Perhaps the cosmos can never gain true harmony or order in an absolute sense. Perhaps there's a tendency for the reflection, the "other" portion of the hallucination, the world and society, to fall into self-consuming chaos, and there's nothing that can ultimately be done about it. ...but what better way to give it all meaning than for the universe to at least strive to be at harmony with itself, even though it might not be able to?

As for solipsism as a generality, I'll amend what I said originally to 2 things you can know with absolute certainty, that you can know your own direct experiences are real and know that you don't know if other peoples experiences are as real as your own. Its the ultimate mystery, why personal perspective exists at all and if other people experience what you do. I do, genuinely think the experiences of others are just as "real" as my own, and that were all having the same experience, just through different hologromatic diffractions that phenomenologically translate to individual perspective. None of our thoughts or actions are separate from anyone else's or the environment we embody, even though we might not be consciously aware of it.

Another thing I want to add to solipsism is that its often harshly condemned, but if you take solipsism to its logical end, that object is hallucinated and that subject is the foundation of reality that the hallucination emanates from, subject and object are really inseparable. On the other hand, if you believe subject and object are wholly separate entities (which is probably a more socially acceptable view), the self is forever at opposition with the other, and harmony is difficult or impossible.

If you were the only real person in the world, why would you have morality? After all, is morality not the collective principles of a society? Furthermore, if you were the only real person where did you come from? Perhaps a solipsist simply wills himself or herself into existence and then basically changes their mind at the moment of death.

I already wrote about this. This isn't about real or not real, but rather hallucination vs. hallucinator and subject vs. object. If that's all there is, then real and non-real are irrelevant, and hallucinator and hallucination are the same thing. If there's just me, the subject, and the rest of the cosmos as object and figures I dreamed up, I'm the whole cosmos and have a duty to that cosmos. If all there is is the dream and the dreamer, then its stupid for the dreamer to cause disharmony to the dream, because the dream is ultimately the source of the dreamers identity.

Sorry, it was rather involved and my attention span is limited.


The trouble is you will make morally wrong choices throughout life and sometimes will get away with it. Whether you like it or not, bad choices and disharmony make you who you are. Likewise sometimes, the right choices may cause more disharmonies. I see no reason why a dream would keep me in a state of morality. Hell, I bet most of my dreams would tear the very fabric of morality.

Its not that you are in a dream though but that you are the dream, and any consequence of the dream, whether its the soul crushing realities of waking life or pissing yourself awake from a night mare, is just a reflection of your own psyche. I mean this whole reality were in is just a fluttering thing. The whole world is going to be destroyed in a relatively short time frame, and cosmologists say the universe is gradually fading away from itself. If you look at the implications of this, its very dream-like. The only thing I think you're left with in the end is your connection to the experience and what it does for reality in the grand scheme. What that means exactly, I don't know.

"What if you slept?And what if,in your sleep,you dreamed?And what if,in your dream,you went to heaven and there plucked a strange and beautiful flower?And what if,when you awoke,you had the flower in your hand?Ah,what then?"

Samuel Taylor Coleridge

Okay, and how exactly does this lead (other) people to the "path of morality"?

Well, a schizophrenic's hallucinations are said to be manifestations of the contents of their own psyche. Extrapolating from this, if the objective world, including other people, is ultimately a hallucination, its a direct reflection of the solipsist's mind. Others reacting to you in a negative way is in some way a reflection of you. This works both ways, for hallucination and hallucinator. If other people are hallucination and the hallucination is fundamentally tied the hallucinator. then how the hallucinator treats their hallucination will influence the way the hallucination reflects back on them. If the hallucinator treats the hallucination in a hostile and disharmonious way, the hallucination will reflect back to them disharmoniously as well. If the hallucinator treats the hallucination with love and respect, love and respect will mirror back at them, more or less. This is how it leads "other people/hallucinated characters" to morality.

What about when I see people doing something I have moral objections to, and seek to right, and they lash out at me?

If they're reflections of my psyche, and I'm trying to do what's right, then why would me psyche be reflecting negatively?

Its all a big fun house mirror, and there's exceptions to the rule, but by in large, most your interactions are reflections of you. People are much more likely to react to you in a positive way if you put out positively. Someone reacting negatively to your positivity is more of the rarity, but ultimately how you react to their unexpected or unmerited negativity will also have a feedback effect.

Last edited by JNathanK on 07 Oct 2012, 11:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Personal experience dictates otherwise.

I try to do what's right, and all it ever brings me is scorn.

The only explaination would be I have some sort of martyr complex, and the hallucination is feeding into it.

Well, if they are not real and simply the products of the hallucinator, then greater disharmony from the self-creator should drive the hallucinations to seek a state of equilibrium. That is to say if I the creator of the hallucinations were to act depraved and immoral the psyche should seek a state of homeostasis and in turn project harmony amongst my hallucinations and thus create a moral world from an immoral conscious. Likewise, the principle of homeostasis would dictate that greater ( yet unsustainable )morality from the hallucinator would only create further immorality amongst the projected hallucinations in order to direct the subconscious to a state of regulated and constant morality/immorality. Put simply if perfection on either ends of the spectrum of good and evil were attainable that why are we not born to be only one-way? Free will implies that we will instead always hesitate and drift towards one or the other of the poles never achieving perfection and always remaining in a state of objective limbo.

Also were all f**** up people. Most morally objectional things people do, you would probably find yourself doing if given the right circumstances, so in that way they are a reflection of you with their immoral behavior, though you, at the current moment, consciously find offense in it.

...and victim complex could play a part in it as well. When people take offense at immorality, often times they bask in a kind of self-superior high, rather than express genuine concern about solving the problems at hand posited by destructive action. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but it is pretty common behavior in all of us.

I don't ever see me teaching my collage class information that I factually know to be untrue...

Does the person who's teaching their class information you take to be untrue think its factually true?

No, she later admitted I was right and she was wrong, then tried to get me kicked out of her class in revenge.