'Bailouts' are a means for total subjugation to EU control

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Tequila
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23 Oct 2012, 2:12 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSoCZs8WlDg[/youtube]Transcript:

Quote:
Well, Mr Van Rompuy, when you first appeared here in what proved to be a rather expensive speech, I said you'd be the quiet assassin of nation state democracy.

And sure enough, in your dull and technocratic way, you've gone about your course but I have to say, you're even worse than I thought you were going to be. I thought it was just going to be a federal Europe - a federal union but actually it appears with every statement you make that what you now want is the total subjugation of the states to completely undemocratic structures based in Brussels.

I misread the bailouts. I thought that when the bailouts happened and I could see the panic around this chamber, people fearing economic meltdown but you of course were calm through it all, because you saw the bailouts as your opportunity to take control. Just think how Ireland today is managed. Greece, for that matter. The sinister-sounding Troika [Commission-ECB-IMF] come in, 50 officials spend a few days in the country, investigate the situation and then tell puppet prime ministers what they may or may not do and I note great enthusiasm in this chamber for Spain to have a bailout. Lots of members here want Spain to accept the bailout so that they too are subjugated to this new order. Indeed in Italy, the appointee there, Mr Monti, is very keen for his own country to be bailed out, because, to quote him, he fears that parliamentary democracy could bring down the European Union.

So I think it's pretty clear that your next phase is for those who haven't been bailed out and may not need to be bailed out; you now want them to sign guarantees, budget guarantees, and to have the power to strike down national budgets after they have been through parliaments.

I have to say, I feel that the eurozone is now in a very dark place, economically, socially, politically, and I fear that the countries trapped inside it - in that prison - will be there for many years to come.

So it's odd against this backdrop that the Nobel Peace Prize has been awarded to the European Union. It's true that Germany hasn't invaded France since 1945, but I don't think there was any prospect of that happening, unless of course what you're all saying is that the Germans are inherently bad people.

No, the threat actually came from Russia, and we should be thanking NATO and we should be thanking millions of American soldiers who served on European soil to maintain peace. Yet I don't hear a word of that because we loathe America and everything that it stands for.

No, this is now a divided, split Europe, with neo-Nazi politics on the rise, with violent demonstrations in the streets. And I frankly think that the award of that Nobel Prize devalues that whole organisation.

Well, it's not all bad news, because in Britain the opinion polls are clear that a clear majority of Brits now want to leave this Union, leaving David Cameron as piggy-in-the-middle, trying to pretend to be a Eurosceptic when he comes over here, going back home and claiming victories - but he's stuck. And I predict one thing: Big political change is coming in Britain because he's losing the support of millions of his own voters.



Last edited by Tequila on 23 Oct 2012, 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

blackelk
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23 Oct 2012, 2:14 pm

The EU is desperate. The recent Nobel joke was another attempt to legitimize a failing/dying idea.


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MarketAndChurch
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23 Oct 2012, 5:15 pm

quite powerful, and quite true.

The EU is a beautiful theory, but multiculturalism and the lack of a unified system does not work, no one feels any accountability or obligation to Europe, everyone is only out for themselves.


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outofplace
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23 Oct 2012, 10:23 pm

I :heart: Nigel Farange!


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outofplace
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23 Oct 2012, 10:29 pm

blackelk wrote:
The EU is desperate. The recent Nobel joke was another attempt to legitimize a failing/dying idea.


Yeah, but the Nobel committee has been a joke ever since awarding the prize to Barack Obama for doing nothing more than winning an election after serving half a term in the US Senate.


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MarketAndChurch
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24 Oct 2012, 2:41 am

outofplace wrote:
blackelk wrote:
The EU is desperate. The recent Nobel joke was another attempt to legitimize a failing/dying idea.


Yeah, but the Nobel committee has been a joke ever since awarding the prize to Barack Obama for doing nothing more than winning an election after serving half a term in the US Senate.


you see its weird that we see it that way, and I thought it was a joke when they gave it to Arafat, but it isn't enough for some to just acknowledge the best and brightest human beings, sometimes when intentions are all that matter, it is better to use it as a tool for social change. You would think others would see what a joke it has become, but whatever.


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visagrunt
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24 Oct 2012, 10:33 am

We're conflating a lot of different ideas here: The EU as a supra-national government; the EU as a political alliance; the EU as an economic alliance; the EU as an issuer of currency and a regulator of banks.

There are many who object to the notion of a supra-national government in Brussels/Strasbourg. They tend to hyperbole when speaking of European regulation, even while their economies benefit from common standards. But there's a legitimate argument that the EU represents a surrender of sovereignty. While there are many, many complaints about this, I have yet to see a cogent argument that demonstrates that citizens of EU member states are worse off as a result of EU membership.

As a political alliance, the EU has been much more of a success. The EU has allowed for aggregation of European interests in multilateral trade agreements. And its overwhelming success (and the success for with the Committee of the non-EU member Norwegian Parliament honoured it) is that the notion of an intra-European war is more remote than at any time in history. In 1914, violence in the Balkans led to global war. In 1992 violence in the Balkans was contained. Multilateralism has a great deal to do with that.

As an economic alliance, the EU also demonstrates success. Free trade between member states has only served to enhance the prosperity of each of them.

But it is the Euro that has been the EU's undoing. The rules were bent to allow Greece to accede to the Euro, and we are now seeing the price of that. If you participate in a multinational currency, you must align your fiscal and banking policies with the monetary policy of the currency issuer. Ireland and the UK both had wilfully negligent regulation of their banking sectors. But where Ireland has been plunged into a fiscal morass, the UK could be stabilized because the Bank of England had the capacity to use monetary policy levers which were not accessible to financial regulators in Ireland.

Bailouts have always been a means for government to impose control upon the marketplace, while minimizing disruption. You don't get something for nothing, and if you go cap in hand to government to get yourself out of the mess that you've gotten yourself into, you should not be surprised when that money comes with strings attached. Are we suprised at the imposition of conditions upon Ireland, Greece and the like? No, of course not. And a good thing too, since allowing these states to go on their merry way jeopardizes the whole currency structure.

Ireland and Greece should never have been admitted to the Euro. Having joined it, their governments were irresponsible to believe that they could continue their imbalanced fiscal policy indefinitely. And they are now reaping the fruits of that irresponsibilty.

From where I sit, the ability of the EU to impose conditions on the irresponsible governments of member states is all to the good.


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24 Oct 2012, 12:10 pm

It's kind of like when you are heavily in debt in your business and you borrow money from a mob guy to keep it going, planning on paying him back. Well, you can't because of the interest and because he's now got part of your business and he just does with it whatever he wants and it eventually belongs to him.


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24 Oct 2012, 1:13 pm

outofplace wrote:
blackelk wrote:
The EU is desperate. The recent Nobel joke was another attempt to legitimize a failing/dying idea.


Yeah, but the Nobel committee has been a joke ever since awarding the prize to Barack Obama for doing nothing more than winning an election after serving half a term in the US Senate.

Personally I'd rather he hadn't gotten that. The Nobel prize is a joke.

I still rate Barack Obama miles ahead of the Republican alternatives though. I don't agree with everything he's done but I believe he's at least intelligent and sincere.



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24 Oct 2012, 8:03 pm

marshall wrote:
outofplace wrote:
blackelk wrote:
The EU is desperate. The recent Nobel joke was another attempt to legitimize a failing/dying idea.


Yeah, but the Nobel committee has been a joke ever since awarding the prize to Barack Obama for doing nothing more than winning an election after serving half a term in the US Senate.

Personally I'd rather he hadn't gotten that. The Nobel prize is a joke.

I still rate Barack Obama miles ahead of the Republican alternatives though. I don't agree with everything he's done but I believe he's at least intelligent and sincere.


I basically just turn out to vote against Republicans.
It's all a farce to me, though, really- I'll feel after the American election about as I did after the Russian one.


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