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17 Dec 2006, 11:44 am

i find it difficult to comprehend the way in which most people don't actually see how sexist the world is. can't see the wood for the trees, perhaps.

?Civil government, so far as it is instituted for the security of property, is in reality instituted for the defense of the rich against the poor, or of those who have some property against those who have none at all.?

Adam Smith


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17 Dec 2006, 7:36 pm

the lower salaries thing is debatable, but even if they do, a woman does not neccessarily have to get a degree to go anywhere in life. She can merely marry a rich guy.

Pileated woodpecker
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17 Dec 2006, 8:52 pm

Twenty One Indicators of Systemic Discrimination Against Men

- The American woman by the 1960s lived in the nation with the world's highest standard of living and owned 65% of the wealth in that nation.

- Feminists "felt victimized", however, and convinced American women that they are "discriminated against".

- Never have they been required to nor been able to produce a shred of statistical evidence to back up that claim.

- Twenty one key statistical indicators each illustrate how men have been and are being systematically discriminated against by government fiat.

1. WEALTH: Women hold 65% of the country's wealth [Fortune Magazine]

2. CHILD CUSTODY: Women receive custody of 92% of the children of divorce and illegitimacy, and men only 4%. [Department of Health & Human Services]

3. INCOME: Men constitute 60% of workplace hours, work longer hours, work harder, and are more qualified, rarely file sexual discrimination or harassment lawsuits or take pregnancy leave, yet earn only 42% more than women [Dept. Labor]

4. SUICIDE: Men's suicide rate is 4.6 times higher than women's [Dept. Health & Human Services -- 26,710 males vs 5,700 females]

5. LIFE EXPECTANCY: Men's life expectancy is seven (7) years shorter than women's [National Center for Health Statistics -- males 72.3 yrs vs females 79 yrs] yet receive only 35% of government expenditures for health care and medical costs.

6. AFFIRMATIVE ACTION: Men are discriminated against BY DESIGN through affirmative action.

7. FEDERAL TAXES: Even though men pay 115% of federal income taxes women constitute 11% more of the voters.

8. VOTE: Because there are 11% more female than male voters, males have little to no influence on how the male tax dollar is spent.

9. WAR: Men, not women, fight and die in battle [Dept. Defense -- Vietnam Casualties 47,369 men vs 74 women] while women sue the taxpayer when they have their butt pinched.

10. WORKPLACE FATALITIES: Men account for more than 95% of workplace fatalities.

11. MURDER: Men are murdered at a rate almost 5 times that of women [Dept. Health & Human Services -- 26,710 men vs 5,700 women]

12. JURY BIAS: Women are acquitted of spousal murder at a rate 9 times that of men [Bureau Justice Statistics -- 1.4% of men vs 12.9% of women]

13. COURT BIAS: Men are sentenced 2.8 times longer than women for spousal murder [Bureau Justice Statistics -- men at 17 years vs women at 6 years]

14. JUSTICE SYSTEM BIAS: Even though the amount of the average "child support payment" due from women is half the amount due from men, and even though women are twice as likely as men to default on those payments, fathers are 97% of "child support" collections prosecutions [Census Bureau]

15. WELFARE: Even though men are the recipients of less than 10% of all welfare disbursements, men are required to refund welfare payments made to women.

16. SECONDARY EDUCATION: Even though zero percent of American 12th grade girls were able to correctly answer basic math and physics questions, less than one quarter of America's secondary and elementary school teachers are men.

17. HIGHER EDUCATION: There are more than 200 all-female colleges for women and now not one single all-male college for men. 5.8% fewer men than women are enrolled in 4 year colleges, even though two thirds of those who score higher than 550 in SAT Math are males. In 1993 only 44.5% of college enrollment were men, and that figure has declined since then. Only 45.8% of of bachelor's degrees were conferred to men in 1992, even though 98.2% of the top fiftieth percentile of the GRE are men, and ZERO PERCENT of American high school girls correctly answered 28 out of 67 TIMSS advanced math questions. Only 38.4% of private 4 year college students were men as of 1990, and this figure has declined since then.

18. LEGAL SYSTEM BIAS: 96% of physical altercations resulting in injury to a spouse occurs AFTER the date of separation. [Read: spousal abuse laws that pretend that husbands are dangerous discriminate against husbands when we know that only a very small percent of domestic violence is associated with them]. [Chadwick and Heaton, "Statistical Handbook of the American Family"]

19. DOMESTIC VIOLENCE: Even though study after study shows that women are the majority of the initiators of domestic violence, and 58% of the above mentioned physical altercations are initiated by the female, Congress passed the obviously anti-male VAWA and VAWA II.which are known would make the problem far worse. [Read: despite the fact we discriminate against husbands in protective orders, women still cause more than half of domestic altercations because they know they can get away with it].

20. CHILD VIOLENCE: Even though mothers commit 55% of child murders and biological fathers commit 6%, even though NIS-3 shows that Mother-only households are 3 times more fatal to children than Father-only households, children are systematically removed from the natural fathers who are their most effective protectors and men are imprisoned at rate 20 times that of women.

21. FAMILY BREAKDOWN: The US Surgeon General notes that divorce is more harmful to a man's health than smoking tobacco, yet as much as $1.3 Trillion of federal expenditures accomplish little else than undermine family stability.

22. WOMEN PILOTS: Even though women pilots have an accident rate four times
that of men pilots, federal laws require that airlines risk the safety of passengers and hire women pilots anyway.

23. WOMEN DRIVERS: Even though the crash rate of women drivers is twice that of men drivers, and even though drinking alcohol increases the crash rate of men by only 5%, the majority of those imprisoned under DUI laws are men, and women are almost never imprisoned for their much higher number of non-alcohol-related crashes.

24. INCARCERATION: Even though feminists brag that 1.4 million American brides commit adultery, and even though women file more than 90,000 false allegations of rape, every year, only 99,000 of the 1.8 million Americans behind bars are women.


Sea Gull
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18 Dec 2006, 2:20 am

Cyanide wrote:
There is one thing women have a right to complain about: their lower salaries

Otherwise, look at all these advantages they get!
-Affirmative Action (women, for some reason, are considered to be a "minority" )
-Extreme superiority in divorce court (including getting the kids and sucking their husbands dry as a bone)
-The ability to dupe any average straight man into doing her bidding with sexual flirtation etc. (heard of the "corporate whore" ?)

In my honest opinion, most of those hardcore feminists are really just female supremecists in disguise.

They get paid less, because they tend to work easier jobs. A man with no skills/education can do hard, manual labor, and earn somewhat decent money. Women get stuck in menial service jobs that dont pay as much. How often do you see women laying concrete, or carrying shingles, etc... That s**t is hard work, and should pay more than being a clerk/cashier or waitress. And yes, women have it way easier than men, in America anyway. Court systems definitely favor them. Our society favors them. Less is expected of them, they have less responsiblity, and they are given more sympathy. It's not even close.

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19 Dec 2006, 8:49 am

The women that are on a crusade against men piss me off. But that is not feminism.

Women can use their bodies to get things, but, this is also not feminist. (Mind you things get a bit fuzzy here)

The thing about feminism, is that it's about equality. The problem is, men and women really are different, so it's hard to really say if there is equality. Not only that, but there are a lot of different versions of feminism.

The misogynists have run such an effective campaign that women who by all rights should considered feminists are trying to distance themselves from feminism. Yeah, they get some help by some of the twits. But feminists are human beings too, and pretty much all of us have serious flaws.

Can you point to any group of people that don't have twits making life hard for the rest of them?

The truth is that there still is a pretty big chasm between men and women. And to say that women have it 'easier' is a farce. Women have it easier than they used to in some parts of the world.

Many of the efforts to accommodate equality are a farce. A lot of the efforts are brought in by people who absolutely hate change, and shouldn't be involved (what, are you going to put a guy from the KKK on a committee to try and fight poverty amongst blacks?).

Affirmative action is something that's popular to hate like a lot of things, but when done right there's something to be said for it, because it can help create role models and encourage more people to enter those fields.

Because you see, the problem with sexually inequality isn't all the men's fault. A lot of women just kind of shrug their shoulders and accept their place. And they also get nasty to the women that don't conform. (Be it that we're talking about the submissive twits, or the ones on a war with men)

And I want to say that this will shock some of the people reading this, but there are a lot of feminists (weather they call themselves that or not) don't want special treatment. That is, they don't want to get a job because of their looks, will pay for food/drinks when they go out, and want to be generally be treated crappy at the same time that a man would.

But then, I wonder how many people would believe such women exist, and truthfully I don't think I'm going to change anyone's mind.

Ah well, maybe I got some people thinking about things from a different perspective that aren't married to the idea that the women's movement is for a bunch of hairy armed lesbians who can't get a man.

Snowy Owl
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20 Dec 2006, 5:27 am

jonathandoors wrote:
It doesn't seem to me that women are oppressed, and it doesn't seem to me they have any difficulty satisfying their sexual desire.

A survey says that two of three women like housework more than sex.


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21 Dec 2006, 2:47 am

Yet another case of pitting men against women.

I haven't read this entire thread yet, and I wont for a while.
Count me out ofthis flaming discusion.

I will say this though, discussions on who is better or worse will never end.
For the guy that made this thread, I applaud your courage in doing something that we will not see in the street however, this will not work to any man's interest.
No matter how much we try to state our view, other feminists will push back twice as hard and with the power of law on their side.
At least try to be a bit more diplomatic.

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Math is the language of the universe.


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24 Dec 2006, 12:52 am

I have no problems with equal rights for the two sexes, and with men and women being treated fairly. What I do have a problem with is people who can't stand anybody saying something they consider "sexist".

The perfect example is the whole Larry Summers case. He was vilified to no end just for bringing up the possibility that the low number of women in science is the result of different intellectual aptitudes (on average!), a suggestion that in fact has a considerable amount of scientific support. That isn't to say that women should be admitted to university science programs, just that it's fine not to believe that everything is the result of discrimination.

I personally believe that the "extreme male brain" theory of autism sounds quite logical, even though it is probably not the whole story. At least it agrees with my personal "gut" impression of men being more system-oriented and women more people-oriented on average. The type of women I am interested in this point are quite far out on the "empathizing" end of the cognitive continuum.

I don't want to, on top of finding it hard to meet women and get anywhere with them, to have people trying to tell me I'm contributing to the oppression of women by not pursuing science-minded women as sexual partners. If it sounds unlikely that anyone would say such a thing, I will tell you that there was a guy on another message board who tried to convince me of something rather similar, namely that any man who doesn't value high-IQ women is contributing to women's lack of equality.


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24 Dec 2006, 2:53 pm

Well actually, to speak scientifically (and besides many women have even told me this too), in general women are even moreso emotional thinkers than men. Well, particularly NT women. Thoug aspie women are more socialised than AS men. But I've been told, by women, by pick-up guides, and everywhere in between, that you can't approach women with logic, they don't usually comprehend logic. One has to push their buttons.
This makes alot of since to me seeing as alot of women cry about not finding a man who will respect them, but then they never give that guy a chance. Instead they keep going back to the men who talk down to them, lie to them, cheat on them, and/or beat the stuffing out of them. Now, I am not trying to speak of ALL women here, just a large number of them.
I think the reason why males are generally more evolved than females (in general, this isn't an all encompassing statement) is because the man was given authority in the wild, and the man had to make the decisions for survival. So, we grew to be alittle more logical. This is the "total male brain" theory.... There are some females too though who are just as evolved, just not as many (and this could present a problem, because more evolved females will be needed for our species to thrive).... Autism is the next branch of evolution though, I do believe that.