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Should homosexuality be promoted?
Yes, very actively 21%  21%  [ 7 ]
Somewhat actively 21%  21%  [ 7 ]
Just not discussed 44%  44%  [ 15 ]
Somewhat discouraged 9%  9%  [ 3 ]
Violently discouraged 6%  6%  [ 2 ]
Total votes : 34

Jitro
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09 Nov 2012, 7:04 pm

Is it being said here that people can choose to be gay like they can choose what flavor of ice cream to buy?



MarketAndChurch
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09 Nov 2012, 7:13 pm

iBlockhead wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
I don't like dealing with 4 different people who deal with nothing I say.

Feel free to lend your opinion to this discussion, the other side has been largely quiet. I have not violated anything other then differing with those on PPR. There have been no gay bashing in here.


Exactly; this is what is going to happen. You find it completely acceptable to say I need to accept incest if I want to be pro-gay rights, yet somehow that's not an attack on gays.

So let's just cut to the chase: if I'm pro-gay rights, you want me to accept an illegal activity as well to be even-handed on this. So the obvious question is, if I'm supposed to accept this form of illegal acitivty, then (I'm going to try this again as previously): do you believe that homosexuality should be criminalized, and if so, what is the punishment? And where do they go after they die if they don't reverse their course?

I have to remind you, that you are under NO OBLIGATION to answer to anything I post, as much as I want you to. I mean, NO ANSWER AT ALL. You can completely walk away from this, and since you're Jewish I cannot say you want to avoid saying they're going to Hell because I don't know what version of the afterlife you believe in. I cannot force you to answer this question, I can only ask that you should answer it. All I have to say is, if you start dancing, that doesn't mean 'no'. I'm only asking this once, and I will not repeat it if you do not answer this and I will leave it alone if you don't. That's the deal. Don't say I'm not fair, I did change your post to the more accurate one.

EDIT: There appears to be a delay and I just read your post. We should hold a poll if what you said in defense of it actually made sense, because that was a terrible delivery if you meant that.



    At the onset: I don't know, I'm constantly misunderstood and constantly misunderstanding others, my AS is a severe impediment to my perception, but also perhaps advantageous in other ways that I have not figured out. We would not have survived or evolved as a species without the AS type, but maybe we now can and will and our usefulness no longer exists. But please correct me or highlight something you misunderstand.


Your Opposition to Incest:
You don't have to accept incest. I am just saying that even you(speaking of the homosexual and homosexual advocate) find it immoral is example of the west's pervasive male-female bias. Why can't sex with an animal be beautiful and meaningful if we have the science that both participants are not harmed, and enjoy the act? What is wrong with a man having multiple wives if they are all consenting and loving? What is wrong with a 12 year old boy having sex with a 25 year old male if that boy is already gay and wants gay relations? Would you not want to bang your 7th grade teacher if she was a 24 year old graduate out of college?

The prohibitions on age, number of wives, sexes involved in the contract, and the species involved all come together to define what we hold as the ideal living arrangement.


Legality and Sexuality
I don't deal with legality because legality has nothing to do with morality. We think in terms of legality and it is to our demise: ask people about a moral question and very often they will answer you in legal terms...

And of course I don't think a homosexual should be jailed. Why punish you if that is how you are. The pedophile is the same but I have less sympathy for them though I greatly understand I need to meet a few of them and understand them better.

Judaism judges behavior. Your behavior determines where you go in the afterlife. If you are a pedophile, and you've never harmed a child, and have lived an utterly decent life, you will go to heaven. The same for the gay, the non-jew, the pagan, and the atheist.


In Conclusion:
Tear down your assumptions about legality. Why does it matter... if you knew a gay personally, as I am surrounded by them daily, would you report their behavior? And why... would you rather they live a life of loneliness? That is amongst the worse curse one can wish on another, just as God said of Adam that it is not good to be alone is a humbling omission on Gods part that even God is not enough and that we need a life partner. The gay should be with the gay, and people should not have any issues with that at the onset... maybe with the way they play musical chairs in the sexual realm but that is another issue, and applies to straights as well.


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XFilesGeek
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09 Nov 2012, 8:13 pm

ArrantPariah wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:

Although, I would love to see the PSAs designed to "promote" homosexuality.


You have to go to specific websites.

The videos promoting Lesbianism are really quite beautifully, and dare I say tastefully, done.

The chicks are gorgeous, and I couldn't think of a single thing that they were doing to each other that I wouldn't like to participate in myself.

Well, maybe I'd pass on the strap-on stuff, even if it was stimulating to watch.


I'm sure that does wonders to encourage heterosexual men to convert to lesbianism. :wink:

Quote:
We should really promote homosexuality among military personnel, as a means of improving discipline, morale, and fighting effectiveness.


Excellent point. Hadn't thought of that.

+1 Internet to you, sir.


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Last edited by XFilesGeek on 09 Nov 2012, 8:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

iBlockhead
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09 Nov 2012, 8:14 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
Your Opposition to Incest:
You don't have to accept incest. I am just saying that even you(speaking of the homosexual and homosexual advocate) find it immoral is example of the west's pervasive male-female bias. Why can't sex with an animal be beautiful and meaningful if we have the science that both participants are not harmed, and enjoy the act? What is wrong with a man having multiple wives if they are all consenting and loving? What is wrong with a 12 year old boy having sex with a 25 year old male if that boy is already gay and wants gay relations? Would you not want to bang your 7th grade teacher if she was a 24 year old graduate out of college?


Homosexuality != pedophilia != bestiality != polygamy != statutory rape

More typical veiled talk. In the animal kingdom, numerous species show homosexual behavior. But birds don't go around mating with bears. Adult animals are mating with adult animals. It's that simple. Unlike bestiality or pedophilia or statutory rape, polygamy and homosexuality are normal functions and can be seen elsewhere. That's why homosexuals don't need to accept incest. Don't say "You don't REALLY need to accept incest" when you're trying to make it.

This isn't hard. Don't sit here and try to make it something else. If you are against homosexuality and ACTUALLY didn't try to sleaze your way through it, I'll treat you very differently. But every single freaking anti-gay poster here cannot directly say it. They dodge questions. They veil their posts like what you just did. They try to be reasonable when it looks differently if you see them at the computer screen.

MarketAndChurch wrote:
Legality and Sexuality
I don't deal with legality because legality has nothing to do with morality. We think in terms of legality and it is to our demise: ask people about a moral question and very often they will answer you in legal terms...


That's a non-answer. If there's no punishment, why do you make these statements?

MarketAndChurch wrote:
And of course I don't think a homosexual should be jailed. Why punish you if that is how you are. The pedophile is the same but I have less sympathy for them though I greatly understand I need to meet a few of them and understand them better.

Judaism judges behavior. Your behavior determines where you go in the afterlife. If you are a pedophile, and you've never harmed a child, and have lived an utterly decent life, you will go to heaven. The same for the gay, the non-jew, the pagan, and the atheist.


If you're going to say that about pedophiles, I'm going out on a limb here and thinking that homosexuals go to heaven if they don't have homosexual sex. If they don't, well...if you are thinking this, then this tactic is no different from the other anti-gay posters here.

MarketAndChurch wrote:
Conclusion:
Tear down your assumptions about legality. Why does it matter... if you knew a gay personally, as I am surrounded by them daily, would you report their behavior? And why... would you rather they live a life of loneliness? That is amongst the worse curse one can wish on another, just as God said of Adam that it is not good to be alone is a humbling omission on Gods part that even God is not enough and that we need a life partner. The gay should be with the gay, and people should not have any issues with that at the onset... maybe with the way they play musical chairs in the sexual realm but that is another issue, and applies to straights as well.


You know of the groups that want it illegal, right? Again, another non-answer.



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09 Nov 2012, 8:29 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Guess what my vote was.
:twisted:


Raptor, we're well aware that like many other Americans you equate 'patriotism' with the systemic oppression of people that have done no wrong to you. There's no need to brag about being despicable.


I said guess what my vote was.
I didn't say what it was and it could have been the exact opposite of what you think it was.


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MarketAndChurch
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09 Nov 2012, 8:32 pm

Well that's why I can't debate you on anything. You sit there and assume intentions.

I could say I don't mind a man and a man living together as a couple, and you will say that I do mind of a man and man living together as a couple.

We can't entertain ideas philosophically with you, maybe you are rigid in that sense, and that is fine, we are all different. I said I don't support punishing gays and you say that I do. I don't know anything about not having homosexual sex as an entrence requirement to heaven... especially when heaven has to do with how decent you are to other fellow human beings.

It's like your not in the moment bro... you are debating ME, not collective that make up homophobes. what I write is right in front of you, maybe you need someone on here to translate for you.

Beastiality and statutory rape are normal if they have been practiced normally throughout human history. You are conflating normalcy and morality. Just because jealousy is normal does not necessarily mean that it is moral.

Why don't you reply to me when you have something meaningful to say, and I'll seek out a translator for you on the forums.


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MarketAndChurch
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09 Nov 2012, 8:41 pm

I see lord gareth has also misread me as well..

okay.

why do we even hate on incest? Where did this arise from considering how beautiful and meaningful an act it was in Rome, Greece, Mesopotamia, Egypt, China, The Americas, the backwoods of Europe, India....

What made it disgusting that even homosexuals in 2012 would find it appalling.... THE SOURCE IS THE BIBLE.

That is my point with the homosexual - incest connection, stop reading me emotionally and read what I actually write... if you read me correctly, you would see that I was speaking illustratively that everyone accepts incest as immoral just as most of the world pre1900's accepted that man-man love was immoral. And it is because of that book that the Jews wrote.


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09 Nov 2012, 8:47 pm

I think this thread started as a joke but has now got very mean,I don't care if you f**k your wheelbarrow,just be civil to one another.



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09 Nov 2012, 8:50 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
Schneekugel wrote:
Since we have recordings, in all cultures a small percentage of people were homosexual.

So I dont see the point why this topic is so special for many people. If you are homosexual your homosexual and its ok. And if you are heterosexual, then your heterosexual and its ok as well. So why should i need to promote one of them if both are fine?


Homosexuality is a human norm. We owe the western world today - as it is framed - to the bible.

That Homos have any icky feelings towards incest is evidence of the Bible's far-reaching bias. That even in 2012, gay folk have an issue with brother-sister love. Why... What is wrong with a brother and a sister sleeping with each other? If Love is the criteria, they have it, and they're not harming you, or so the impediment to moral reasoning goes.


Uhh, this post is probably why they are reading bad intentions into your Bible argument.



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09 Nov 2012, 8:51 pm

Lord_Gareth wrote:
Market and Church, I would like you to know something:

I spend my time on the internet looking for arguments. No, not by trolling, I just find things people are arguing about and weigh in. I've argued against Twilight on Twilight forums. I've argued about religion everywhere. I've argued politics, I've argued science with creationists, I live with a man who believes in the Illuminati.

And despite all of this, your comments in this thread are the stupidest things I've ever heard in my entire goddamn life. Your confirmation bias is rampant, as is your lionization of ancient Hebrew culture. News flash: Jews, like all other human beings, are products of their time. Their culture during and before the life of Christ was precisely as wretched and monstrous as those of their neighbors. They took slaves, sold human beings as property, murdered their fellows during "divinely sanctioned" lynchings and practiced genocide - just like everyone else. The only real difference is that they lost (a lot) and ended up as the slaves of several cultures with superior military or sometimes cultural resources (see: Egypt and Rome).

As for folks being pro-homosexual also being pro-incest, I would like to point out there there's a moral and practical dimension you missed. To wit:

- If a man and a man, or a woman and a woman, choose to have sex the only risk they take is with each other (sexually transmitted infections), which is also a risk in heterosexual relations.

- If a mother and son, or a brother and sister, or a granddaughter and grandfather or what have you choose to have sex (leaving out all of the incestuous relationships that result from child grooming or straight-up abuse and rape of a more common variety) then they're risking bringing another human being into the world, one that is likely to be damned to a life of misery due to various defects and deficiencies caused by the close genetic relationship of their parents.

I suppose a case could be made for same-sex incest or sterile incest, but that's for society and the laws it produces to decide, not me (especially since you wouldn't get me to write the legalize on that document at fraggin' gunpoint).

We on the same page now? Good.


Please, I only debate examples, and am more then willing to concede when I do not know the answer to your question on Judaism. I do not click out on any links you provide so only things you post in this thread or on the forums will be responded to.

It often takes generations for the act to take a toll on its participants. and in the ancient world, one might marry their sister, and a few generations down the line, another brother-sister pairing may occur, and had no consequences genetically, socially, health wise...


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09 Nov 2012, 8:57 pm

Raptor wrote:
Lord_Gareth wrote:
Raptor wrote:
Guess what my vote was.
:twisted:


Raptor, we're well aware that like many other Americans you equate 'patriotism' with the systemic oppression of people that have done no wrong to you. There's no need to brag about being despicable.


I said guess what my vote was.
I didn't say what it was and it could have been the exact opposite of what you think it was.


Taking a brave step out of the closet, are we?



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09 Nov 2012, 8:57 pm

Misslizard wrote:
I think this thread started as a joke but has now got very mean,I don't care if you f**k your wheelbarrow,just be civil to one another.


Like most all of the OP's threads it was deliberately intended to stir the pot of dissent.

We just can't call it what it is (psssssp.............+r011ing....)
Did someone say something? T'wasn't I....


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09 Nov 2012, 8:58 pm

to paraphrase Neil Simon "if you sleep with your cousin, you get babies with 9 heads." and sex with animals can spread zoonosis. Syphilis might have originally started out a disease of sheep. Mostly harmless to the sheep, but devastating to humans. So incest and bestiality prohibitions are rooted in some real world logic. Prohibitions against homosexuality are rooted in superstition.



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09 Nov 2012, 9:02 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
I could say I don't mind a man and a man living together as a couple, and you will say that I do mind of a man and man living together as a couple.


That's completely false, but OK.

MarketAndChurch wrote:
We can't entertain ideas philosophically with you, maybe you are rigid in that sense, and that is fine, we are all different. I said I don't support punishing gays and you say that I do. I don't know anything about not having homosexual sex as an entrence requirement to heaven... especially when heaven has to do with how decent you are to other fellow human beings.


More on that below.

MarketAndChurch wrote:
Beastiality and statutory rape are normal if they have been practiced normally throughout human history. You are conflating normalcy and morality. Just because jealousy is normal does not necessarily mean that it is moral.


If they WERE practiced normally throughout human history. I also noted the completely natural actions among the animal kingdom, but you keep making it a human issue.

OK, so what's the punishment for the "immoral activity"? If you say something is immoral, there has to be a consequence for the immoral activity.

MarketAndChurch wrote:
Why don't you reply to me when you have something meaningful to say, and I'll seek out a translator for you on the forums.


You implied that if homosexuality is OK, then why not bestiality, pedophilia, etc. It's a typical tactic that's been done to death. I told you they were different things, but now you give some hypothetical statement you didn't show evidence for. Come on...



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09 Nov 2012, 9:04 pm

^^^^True,like not eating catfish or shellfish,contaminated water,or the laws on leprosy,the eating of swine and other unclean animal,if it wasn't cooked properly you could get worms or worse,some of those old laws make alot of sense.



iBlockhead
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09 Nov 2012, 9:07 pm

Misslizard wrote:
^^^^True,like not eating catfish or shellfish,contaminated water,or the laws on leprosy,the eating of swine and other unclean animal,if it wasn't cooked properly you could get worms or worse,some of those old laws make alot of sense.


I'm pretty sure this quote is for the one above my last one, to clarify.

Actually, the prohibition against pork was based on something that could not possibly happen in the enviroment around them. I forget what it was, but it would make perfect sense if it was somewhere else in the world.