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Aspie_Chav
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10 Nov 2012, 5:23 pm

ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:

Don't worry about peak oil. Coal can be converted into something like petroleum.
ruveyn

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How much energy is required for the conversion. If it takes 9 barrels of oil to get 10, that is going to be reflected in price of oil.



ruveyn
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10 Nov 2012, 5:27 pm

Aspie_Chav wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
marshall wrote:

Don't worry about peak oil. Coal can be converted into something like petroleum.
ruveyn

ruveyn


How much energy is required for the conversion. If it takes 9 barrels of oil to get 10, that is going to be reflected in price of oil.


That is where nuclear fission comes in.

The coal is not for burning. It is the basis of a chemical feed stock.

ruveyn



adb
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10 Nov 2012, 8:28 pm

marshall wrote:
:roll:
Evidence that getting rid of these programs is going to make people more free? What makes you think we are not economic slaves in the first place? Give a person a choice between not starving and "freedom", they will choose not starving every time. Libertarian "freedom" is a bunch of BS. It's an empty and utterly meaningless platitude to people who have to exist in the real world. The assumption that most people on welfare "choose" to be dependent on it when there simply aren't enough living-wage jobs to go around is frankly pretty insulting, almost sociopathic.

It really frustrates me that you have such great communication in so many threads, but when it comes to libertarian values, you spew venom in some trance of hostility.

Many people have given their lives for libertarian "freedom".

I see just as many job postings now that I saw before this depression, so I don't buy the statement that there aren't enough jobs to go around. What I see is a lot of people who aren't willing to work for lower wages than they earned in a prosperous economy.



marshall
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10 Nov 2012, 8:41 pm

adb wrote:
marshall wrote:
:roll:
Evidence that getting rid of these programs is going to make people more free? What makes you think we are not economic slaves in the first place? Give a person a choice between not starving and "freedom", they will choose not starving every time. Libertarian "freedom" is a bunch of BS. It's an empty and utterly meaningless platitude to people who have to exist in the real world. The assumption that most people on welfare "choose" to be dependent on it when there simply aren't enough living-wage jobs to go around is frankly pretty insulting, almost sociopathic.

It really frustrates me that you have such great communication in so many threads, but when it comes to libertarian values, you spew venom in some trance of hostility.

Many people have given their lives for libertarian "freedom".

I see just as many job postings now that I saw before this depression, so I don't buy the statement that there aren't enough jobs to go around. What I see is a lot of people who aren't willing to work for lower wages than they earned in a prosperous economy.


I "spew venom" when libertarians have insulting notions. If people are eligible for food stamps or other forms of assistance it isn't usually because they are holding out for a better job. In most cases they are already working part time but simply don't make enough to support their family. Not everyone can juggle two or three part time jobs at once. It's not a matter of not prospering. It's a matter of finding it difficult to survive without being demeaned by libertarians as "moochers". It seems the libertarian answer is to tell the people who can't survive to go kill themselves. :roll:



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10 Nov 2012, 8:52 pm

I don't think autistics can survive in a capitalistic society except for a few lucky ones.



ruveyn
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10 Nov 2012, 8:55 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
I don't think autistics can survive in a capitalistic society except for a few lucky ones.


Aspies are 20 percent of the work force in the software industry. The Aspies so employed do very well for them selves. I was one of these. Now I am retired.

ruveyn



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10 Nov 2012, 10:50 pm

Nuerotypicals have taken over the computer industry and computers are now mainstream.



marshall
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10 Nov 2012, 11:10 pm

androbot2084 wrote:
Nuerotypicals have taken over the computer industry and computers are now mainstream.

For-profit software companies have no patience for autistic perfectionism. The goal is to whip out as much obnoxious buggy software as possible as fast as possible. Quick and sloppy makes more money. Elegance and logic takes a back seat to flashy bells and whistles. The best strategy for a software company is planned obsolescence. What you do is tease the buyer with some newfangled feature that turns out to be only half as functional as it claims to be. Then when you actually get the feature fully implemented make them buy a newer version to get it. If you wait till you're actually finished with the software before you release it you can't make as much money. Neurotypicals also like spamming the customer with pointless adware and other junk to help extract more money. Remember, the object of a software company isn't to make software that the designers can feel proud of. Your only purpose is to extract money from people.



Last edited by marshall on 10 Nov 2012, 11:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

abacacus
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10 Nov 2012, 11:17 pm

Jacoby wrote:
Why would one believe such a murderous ideology?


Communism isn't a murderous ideology. What is, is neglectful of human nature. In a perfect world Communism would be the perfect system, but unfortunately we aint in said perfect world.


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androbot2084
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10 Nov 2012, 11:18 pm

We can find that perfect world in our imaginations.



marshall
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10 Nov 2012, 11:34 pm

abacacus wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Why would one believe such a murderous ideology?


Communism isn't a murderous ideology. What is, is neglectful of human nature. In a perfect world Communism would be the perfect system, but unfortunately we aint in said perfect world.


The problem has to do with market complexity as well as human nature. In a competitive situation a free-market has the tendency to match production with demand in a complex but self-organizing way. Planned economies have a problem with production shortages. It's not just lack of motivation. There's a matching problem as well.

I don't think it's true that a society of collectively run cooperatives cannot function. The problem occurs when a central planner comes in and sets prices and quotas. That approach does tend to demotivate workers and lower production. People will cooperate but they also need some degree of autonomy and control to thrive. Even corporate managers know this and the smart ones encourage cooperative teamwork and limit the amount of micro-management.



adb
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11 Nov 2012, 9:33 am

marshall wrote:
I "spew venom" when libertarians have insulting notions. If people are eligible for food stamps or other forms of assistance it isn't usually because they are holding out for a better job. In most cases they are already working part time but simply don't make enough to support their family. Not everyone can juggle two or three part time jobs at once. It's not a matter of not prospering. It's a matter of finding it difficult to survive without being demeaned by libertarians as "moochers". It seems the libertarian answer is to tell the people who can't survive to go kill themselves. :roll:

You're too busy playing victim to actually listen to what people say.



DancingDanny
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11 Nov 2012, 9:34 am

Maybe if libertarians didn't require a decoder ring and a secret password to understand what they are saying, he wouldn't bug out on you all. :)



adb
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11 Nov 2012, 9:50 am

marshall wrote:
androbot2084 wrote:
Nuerotypicals have taken over the computer industry and computers are now mainstream.

For-profit software companies have no patience for autistic perfectionism. The goal is to whip out as much obnoxious buggy software as possible as fast as possible. Quick and sloppy makes more money. Elegance and logic takes a back seat to flashy bells and whistles. The best strategy for a software company is planned obsolescence. What you do is tease the buyer with some newfangled feature that turns out to be only half as functional as it claims to be. Then when you actually get the feature fully implemented make them buy a newer version to get it. If you wait till you're actually finished with the software before you release it you can't make as much money. Neurotypicals also like spamming the customer with pointless adware and other junk to help extract more money. Remember, the object of a software company isn't to make software that the designers can feel proud of. Your only purpose is to extract money from people.

Where do you get this crap? Is there a conspiracy theory website that has this stuff readily available? Libertarians have a secret agenda to kill off all the weaklings in society. Big businesses have a monopoly over employment and will exploit weak job people without regard to their welfare. Technology companies intentially create buggy products to facilitate purchasing upgrades.

Does it also say on there that unions are run by organized crime? And that everyone on welfare is a lazy bum who just doesn't want to work?

You have extremist views and you are projecting extremism on other people.



ruveyn
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11 Nov 2012, 10:54 am

abacacus wrote:
Jacoby wrote:
Why would one believe such a murderous ideology?


Communism isn't a murderous ideology. What is, is neglectful of human nature. In a perfect world Communism would be the perfect system, but unfortunately we aint in said perfect world.


We are overlooking the gulags, aren't we?

ruveyn



Last edited by ruveyn on 11 Nov 2012, 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

marshall
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11 Nov 2012, 1:23 pm

adb wrote:
marshall wrote:
I "spew venom" when libertarians have insulting notions. If people are eligible for food stamps or other forms of assistance it isn't usually because they are holding out for a better job. In most cases they are already working part time but simply don't make enough to support their family. Not everyone can juggle two or three part time jobs at once. It's not a matter of not prospering. It's a matter of finding it difficult to survive without being demeaned by libertarians as "moochers". It seems the libertarian answer is to tell the people who can't survive to go kill themselves. :roll:

You're too busy playing victim to actually listen to what people say.

You're too busy playing as*hole to not see the nasty consequences of your ideology.