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duncvis
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15 Mar 2005, 6:59 am

I agree with TAFKASH, Jay and vetivert that aspies are generally unlikely to be fundamentalists as our nature tends to involve thinking for ourselves.

Personally my problem with organised religion is that I find it difficult to accommodate a belief sytem which asks you to ignore what your senses tell you and the evidence that you see around you, to accept a Bronze Age prophet's 'divinely inspired' interpretation of wrong and right, and to accept notions which fly in the face of logic. I am religious but I prefer to dictate my own spiritual path thanks... :?

I think New Model Army said it best in 'Ten Commandments'...

Quote:
'I will bow to the earth, bow to the sea
Bow to the love between you and me
I will bow to the sun, bow to the land
But never to a god made in the image of man.'


Dunc


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thechadmaster
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15 Mar 2005, 7:29 am

I believe in blind faith, i just take it for what it is, i dont question God or the Church, Que Sera Sera, Whatever will be will be, the future's not ours to see


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TAFKASH
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15 Mar 2005, 12:12 pm

vetivert wrote:
i agree with tafkash (as usual), and Jay.

me? a fundie? falls off chair laughing!


Once again, I stand in awed amazement at your incredible taste and good judgement. :wink:

Fundie? I like that one! Just think of the marketing potential:

"Want to visit exciting foreign countries, sample strange new cultures, witness fabulous sights and meet interesting new people? ....and then blow the crap out of them for disagreeing with your narrow, petty little belief systems? Then have Fun! Make people Die! Join the FunDies today!"

I'll have a word with Osama right away - there might be a few bob in this one for me...... :)


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TAFKASH
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15 Mar 2005, 3:03 pm

thechadmaster wrote:
I believe in blind faith, i just take it for what it is, i dont question God or the Church, Que Sera Sera, Whatever will be will be, the future's not ours to see


This isn't a personal attack, honestly....... no, really it isn't..... :) Its just that its that kind of attitude that generally results in some people wanting to fly 'planes into large solid objects at considerable velocity...... It is absolutely fundamental to me that everything should be challenged and questioned, especially something like religion where there are a million different opinions, each claiming to be the only "correct" and "valid" one..... Everybody can't be right, and its a thousand to one chance surely that the one particular religion anyone subscribes to can indeed be the "correct" one....... Anyway, I respect your viewpoint if that is indeed the way you feel. :wink:

By the way, Osama's giving me some positive vibes on my marketing strategy. He also absolutely loves the new slogan I've come up with for his new chain of Cash 'n' Carries as well: You haven't "been ladened" until you've "Bin Laden"ed.

*knock at the door* On cripes, its those pesky taste police again..... :roll:


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thechadmaster
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15 Mar 2005, 3:29 pm

you are implying that i am a terrorist, the hijackers had strong faith that was not blind faith, they qustioned their religious motives all the time, what kind of religion endorses murder?


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thechadmaster
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15 Mar 2005, 3:30 pm

P.S. I believe what the Vatican tells me to believe and i do not question it

Saddam Hussein.. they should call him so-damn insane!


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TAFKASH
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15 Mar 2005, 3:32 pm

thechadmaster wrote:
you are implying that i am a terrorist, the hijackers had strong faith that was not blind faith, they qustioned their religious motives all the time, what kind of religion endorses murder?


God, no.... not at all...... :? I'm simply stating that blind faith in the words of one's religious "superiors" can and does lead to such instances......

Of course, no kind of worthwhile religion can condone murder, but there are sadly plenty that do....... and I'll think you'll find that the 9/11 lot never questioned a religious motive in their entire miserable existences, actually......


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echospectra
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15 Mar 2005, 6:52 pm

I get sooo tired of all the suggestions that thinking for oneself and believing in God are mutually exclusive... these seem to come from believers and unbelievers both, so that's one thing at least that they share.

C. S. Lewis... G. K. Chesterton... Dorothy Sayers... Madeleine L'Engle... talk about smart, independently thinking folks who believe in God. Anybody listen? No...

*sigh*



TAFKASH
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15 Mar 2005, 7:33 pm

echospectra wrote:
I get sooo tired of all the suggestions that thinking for oneself and believing in God are mutually exclusive... these seem to come from believers and unbelievers both, so that's one thing at least that they share.

C. S. Lewis... G. K. Chesterton... Dorothy Sayers... Madeleine L'Engle... talk about smart, independently thinking folks who believe in God. Anybody listen? No...

*sigh*


Since when have I ever said people having half a brain and belief in God are mutually exclusive? Never, that's when. Who knows whether or not God exists - I certainly don't (although I strongly doubt the fact personally, but anyhoo...). The consideration, debate and contemplation of the fact (or otherwise) are to be encouraged. There's nothing wrong or intellectually diminishing with believing in God whatsoever - anyone who says otherwise is clearly a fool.

It is Organised Religion that is the problem...... The enforced imposition of ludicrous man-made dogma and doctrine on poor unsuspecting innocents by evil, powerful self-interest groups that has caused and continues to cause so many of the problems we as a species have endured through history. This is what must be questioned and fought against..... Unthinking acceptance of self-interest induced deliberate mistranslations of self-interest induced deliberate mistranslations of garbled nonsense spouted by some nut job or other 1000s of years ago......


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echospectra
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17 Mar 2005, 11:27 pm

Not sure which "nut" you mean.



Ebi
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18 Mar 2005, 1:41 am

JayShaw wrote:
People with Asperger's Syndrome are significantly less likely to believe in any form of organized religion than the general population is.


Aye - in an AS-related mailing list I'm on someone just touched the subject of atheism. Is it any coincidence a good number of members of that list (and some AS suspects I know too) declare themselves atheists? I think not. Perhaps it is our tendency to extensive research, to find a reason for everything, that in turn makes it hard for us to believe in anything "just because".

Just to make it clear - for me, God exists - in the form of the vast order and dimensions of the Universe which extends beyond our wildest imaginations, in Nature as a whole, where nothing exists without a purpose, and in the mere fact that all of this just couldn't have made itself in a single boom without a major coordination force behind the scenes. That's where I see God - not in organized religion. The only thing religions have done, IMHO, is to misuse grossly the concept of God, twisting and turning it according to the conveniences of a given group and their less-than-holy interests. History abounds in examples...


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1PeaceMaker
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18 Mar 2005, 3:55 am

My feeling about God is similar to what you described, Ebi.



TAFKASH
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18 Mar 2005, 4:57 pm

echospectra wrote:
Not sure which "nut" you mean.


The now unknown and lost in time miscellaneous "nut"s who decided millenia ago that, for whatever reason, they were going to be instruments of God and start spouting invented creation myths and dogma - myth and dogma that our society is still mired with even now. To me, that qualifies someone as a "nut".


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TAFKASH
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18 Mar 2005, 5:11 pm

thechadmaster wrote:
P.S. I believe what the Vatican tells me to believe and i do not question it


OK, that's fair enough - but what if the Vatican changes what it believes in (as it has done many times historically, and seldom for spiritual or religious reasons) and starts to tell you to do things that are unspeakable or unethical (as it has also done many times historically - The Inquisition, the destruction of the new world and its peoples, and the tacit acceptance of Nazism being just 3 readily available to mind examples) - would you still accept what it tells you unthinkingly? If not in those cases, then why do you not question it now as well? Why should what catholicism dictates now be any more valid than what it did then? If the Pope's words and dictates are the words and dictates of God now, then why weren't they then?

Sorry to have a go - this really isn't a personal attack - it just alarms me to see an obviously intelligent person just blindly accepting (in some cases) questionable dogma just because some out of touch old duffer says that you'll burn in hell or whatever for not doing so.....


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thechadmaster
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19 Mar 2005, 9:30 am

When the Pope speaks ex cathedra he is infallible, and yes i would follw the Vatican to ANY extent!
I dont see anything in the CHurch as "Questionable Dogma" everything happens for a reason. THis reminds me of a song in church that goes:

We Walk by Faith and Not By Sight
No Gracious Words We Hear
Of Him Who Spoke
As None Ever Spoke
But We Believe Him Near


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