The true murderers of the abortion debate

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The Right isn't a united entity, ideologically speaking. But the Left is.

Our values is what determines where we end up on the ideological political spectrum. You have examples of people who betray that from time to time, but they are almost nonexistent in comparison to the examples we have that do conform to most of the value system. Even those who betray the value system of their side still carry 3/4's of the remaining values.

The Left views every issue through the prism of Race, Gender, and Class, and their solutions are based on several of the following values: Secularism, Tolerance, Multiculturalism, Equality, Compassion, Collectivism, and Environmentalism.

The Right everywhere in the world are those who the Left hates. So definitionally, the right is not united, and often are at war with each other because they're the forces at be that the left has to overcome to institute the above values. There are enemies on the Right. There are non on the Left if they are fighting the Right, or, the Right is coming after them. Islam and Muslim countries being the great example.

The Right as a movement is unique to some places. The Right in the United States has no relation to most of the Rightwing in many parts of the world, and even in America they are not an ideologically united camp made up of religious, libertarian, neo-liberals, and protectionists, etc.

*snort*

The liberal left is a herd. They are controlled by their academic and political shepherds.

We are poor little liberals who have lost our way --- baah, baah, baah.

ruveyn

Democrats (or "liberals") are not left-wing. They're essentially center-right with midly liberalistic views, whereas their main rivals are slightly more right-wing, typically with neoconservative views.

You are using a European measuring rod. I am using a U.S. measuring rod.

I agree that the U.S. as a whole if further right than most of Europe.

ruveyn

yet another reason to avoid a Catholic country when pregnant: http://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/ ... l-me-that/

*shudder*

that's quite simply... horrible

Sorry, I feel a rant welling up...

They don't do this stuff because they hate women; they do it because they love suffering and think it's ennobling. Jesus died a gory, horrible death, so if you can suffer a lot, it brings you closer to him. Women are just seen as being especially good at suffering, hence the whole phenomenon of teary Madonnas. I hated the whole Irish Catholic attitude towards life and suffering when I had to grow up with it. Part of my attraction to Buddhism was that the religion is much concerned with the cessation of suffering.

I'm aware that Catholics do a lot of charity work, but I know from experience that it's often not about alleviating suffering so much as fulfilling a duty to God. Not all Catholics are the same in this, but I've head it said that charity isn't really charity unless it involves personal sacrifice and going against your own will. I don't see why it should, except if suffering is like energy; something that can't be destroyed and only transferred. This would make sense because if you think of why God needs a blood sacrifice to cleanse humanity's sins. He can't just forgive people, he has to crucify someone first. You can't just help someone, you have to mortify yourself first.

So I think that maybe at the root of Catholicism's aversion to suffering-alleviating measures like birth control and C Sections is not just their belief about souls, but also their belief about suffering; namely that you can't really alleviate it at all in this life and you're tempting God's wrath by even trying to.

Last edited by puddingmouse on 20 Nov 2012, 1:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.

My family is culturally Irish Catholic, though tempered by a couple of generation in the US. So, yeah.
But it's not jut the suffering; it's the idea that women's role is to have as many children as possible, regardless of what that takes.

The rights of children are above the rights of adults.

At the root of it is that s**t is God's will and that you're not allowed to have a good time on earth. One way to have a bit s**t life and keep God sweet is to have a huge family.

It's really Islam and Ultra-Orthodox Jewish people who think women's 'role' is to have tonnes of kids. Catholicism has monasticism and nuns, so the expectation isn't universal. Catholicism and some other forms of Christianity that don't like contraception see kids as less of a duty and more of a punishment for having sex in the first place.

Octo-Mom had a ton of kids and everyone hated her.

Also, I don't mean to offend you. It's just that this is a bit of a hot button issue for me because I'm still a bit traumatised and I feel like I have to say this stuff or no-one else will. Other ex-Catholics I meet a so reticent about criticising the core of that faith (mainly because they're just lapsed and I've never really met anyone who has mentally excommunicated themselves to the extent that I have).

I will win the abortion debate as soon as the artificial womb is invented.

Not as respects rape.