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KagamineLen
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14 Nov 2012, 3:26 pm

.....but how many people are willing to do something about it?

It is easy to base one's political opinions on what one watches in the media, or hears about on the Internet.

It is more rewarding to learn about the world by getting involved in activism, by directly dealing with the world around oneself, and by listening to what real people in the real world have to say. It's a shame that the ones who know how to get the most attention are the ones with the views that run with complete black-and-white extremes.

The biggest problem with the USA? Not enough people are actively involved in the world that they exist in. Convenience is easier than standing up for what one believes in, and too many people run for the convenience.

There is also the general feeling of hopelessness - millions of people vote for either Romney or Obama even though they don't like either, just because they go for "the lesser of the evils". Either that, or they don't vote at all, for they don't see how taking any action would help ease the hopelessness they feel within themselves.

The public has more power than it thinks it does. But actually seizing that power is inconvenient, and convenience is more important than making a real effort in American culture. That's a damn shame.

Being in a state of sloth and discontent is simple and easy. Building up oneself and doing anything to make the community a better place takes effort - all things that bring true feelings of content and happiness takes real effort and maintenance.

If even half of the American public were actually involved in the communities around them, I would bet that there would not be such a pervasive Right/Left cultural divide.

That is my political rant for the day.



ruveyn
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14 Nov 2012, 3:59 pm

KagamineLen wrote:
...

If even half of the American public were actually involved in the communities around them, I would bet that there would not be such a pervasive Right/Left cultural divide.

That is my political rant for the day.


Our first obligation is to ourselves and our kin. Community concern is third or fourth down the line. If we live in a place we should care for it to the extent that our being there and its functioning is of some benefit to us. Community care is just self interest writ large.

ruveyn



KagamineLen
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14 Nov 2012, 4:08 pm

ruveyn wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
...

If even half of the American public were actually involved in the communities around them, I would bet that there would not be such a pervasive Right/Left cultural divide.

That is my political rant for the day.


Our first obligation is to ourselves and our kin. Community concern is third or fourth down the line. If we live in a place we should care for it to the extent that our being there and its functioning is of some benefit to us. Community care is just self interest writ large.

ruveyn


Yeah, but I am of the opinion that community care is an integral part of self-care. Being in an unhealthy community usually leads to some form of despair if one chooses to surrender and believe he is powerless. Getting involved in the community as a means to gain experience and shape one's own opinions (instead of just getting them from the television like too many people do)? How can that not be seen as an obligation to oneself?

Healthy people and healthy families deserve healthy communities to reside in. They are not going to get healthy communities if nobody is going to bother to be a part of any community in general. Obligation to oneself and kin is extremely important, and obligation to community is as every bit important as those two things in my opinion. If one finds the right balance between those three things, one is in the right groove.



ruveyn
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14 Nov 2012, 4:12 pm

KagamineLen wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
KagamineLen wrote:
...

If even half of the American public were actually involved in the communities around them, I would bet that there would not be such a pervasive Right/Left cultural divide.

That is my political rant for the day.


Our first obligation is to ourselves and our kin. Community concern is third or fourth down the line. If we live in a place we should care for it to the extent that our being there and its functioning is of some benefit to us. Community care is just self interest writ large.

ruveyn


Yeah, but I am of the opinion that community care is an integral part of self-care. Being in an unhealthy community usually leads to some form of despair if one chooses to surrender and believe he is powerless. Getting involved in the community as a means to gain experience and shape one's own opinions (instead of just getting them from the television like too many people do)? How can that not be seen as an obligation to oneself?

Healthy people and healthy families deserve healthy communities to reside in. They are not going to get healthy communities if nobody is going to bother to be a part of any community in general. Obligation to oneself and kin is extremely important, and obligation to community is as every bit important as those two things in my opinion. If one finds the right balance between those three things, one is in the right groove.


Rabbi Hillel used to say: If I am not for myself then who is for me? And if I am only for myself, then what am I? And if not now, then when?

ruveyn



adb
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14 Nov 2012, 5:14 pm

When you're faced with the plague or being exterminated by your government, you'll see how little community actually means. In times of crisis, people don't band together. They kill and abandon each other, with few exceptions. You can talk community up all you want, but history has demonstrated what really happens.

It's great that you want to help your community, but you are doing yourself a disservice if you put it equal to yourself or your family in importance.



KagamineLen
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14 Nov 2012, 5:55 pm

adb wrote:
When you're faced with the plague or being exterminated by your government, you'll see how little community actually means. In times of crisis, people don't band together. They kill and abandon each other, with few exceptions. You can talk community up all you want, but history has demonstrated what really happens.

It's great that you want to help your community, but you are doing yourself a disservice if you put it equal to yourself or your family in importance.


If that was the pure and absolute truth, lynching would still be common in the South, women would still not be able to vote in the US, there would not have even been a successful American Revolution to begin with, India would still be under British rule, apartheid would still be in place in South Africa, etc.....

Any minority group in the United States did not get their civil rights by having it given to them. They had to step up, band together, and fight. It is proof that people don't always turn on each other when the oppression against them is in full force. Yeah, you'll always have people that will turn on each other in these situations, but history has proved countless times that to claim that is the absolute truth in all such situations is pure nonsense.



MarketAndChurch
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14 Nov 2012, 6:04 pm

The Left / Right divide is unbridgeable, one will bow to the other, and either can only succeed at the other's recession.

Right now, there are calls for the Right to bow to the Left because Obama won. Which is stupid and I don't think people who demand it hear themselves.

That said, you have atheists who marry christians, vegans who marry meat eaters, blacks who marry whites, but you do not have liberals marrying or dating conservatives.

It is the strongest divider in the nation, and so much hinges on the toxic political culture we currently have that neither side wants to give in.

There's also been the loss of the concept of community, and social obligations that one has to it. We've built an autonomous system where we feel we can pretty much go on autopilot without the older institutions that used to prop it up, forgetting the value system that built it in the first place. There's a lot to be said about this alone.


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KagamineLen
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14 Nov 2012, 7:05 pm

MarketAndChurch wrote:
The Left / Right divide is unbridgeable, one will bow to the other, and either can only succeed at the other's recession.

Right now, there are calls for the Right to bow to the Left because Obama won. Which is stupid and I don't think people who demand it hear themselves.

That said, you have atheists who marry christians, vegans who marry meat eaters, blacks who marry whites, but you do not have liberals marrying or dating conservatives.

It is the strongest divider in the nation, and so much hinges on the toxic political culture we currently have that neither side wants to give in.

There's also been the loss of the concept of community, and social obligations that one has to it. We've built an autonomous system where we feel we can pretty much go on autopilot without the older institutions that used to prop it up, forgetting the value system that built it in the first place. There's a lot to be said about this alone.


The fact that there is no real concept of community throughout most of the US is one of the main reasons why the Left/Right divide is so strong, IMO. Like I said in the initial post, the people who get the most attention are the ones who have the most extreme beliefs. People listen to those extreme beliefs, they are bombarded with them in the media, and they use that as an acceptable substitute for getting out into the world and forming their own opinions through their own experiences.

I'm not saying this is a recent trend that people have just discovered. But the previous century was a period where activism and a sense of collective community was pervasive throughout large portions of the US, and now it's lost, all in the name of convenience.



marshall
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14 Nov 2012, 11:53 pm

KagamineLen wrote:
.....but how many people are willing to do something about it?

It is easy to base one's political opinions on what one watches in the media, or hears about on the Internet.

It is more rewarding to learn about the world by getting involved in activism, by directly dealing with the world around oneself, and by listening to what real people in the real world have to say. It's a shame that the ones who know how to get the most attention are the ones with the views that run with complete black-and-white extremes.

The biggest problem with the USA? Not enough people are actively involved in the world that they exist in. Convenience is easier than standing up for what one believes in, and too many people run for the convenience.

There is also the general feeling of hopelessness - millions of people vote for either Romney or Obama even though they don't like either, just because they go for "the lesser of the evils". Either that, or they don't vote at all, for they don't see how taking any action would help ease the hopelessness they feel within themselves.

The public has more power than it thinks it does. But actually seizing that power is inconvenient, and convenience is more important than making a real effort in American culture. That's a damn shame.

Being in a state of sloth and discontent is simple and easy. Building up oneself and doing anything to make the community a better place takes effort - all things that bring true feelings of content and happiness takes real effort and maintenance.

If even half of the American public were actually involved in the communities around them, I would bet that there would not be such a pervasive Right/Left cultural divide.

That is my political rant for the day.

+1000.

This is the problem with America today. People live in their little bubbles.