Should Religious Prostitution be Legal?
MarketAndChurch
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15 Nov 2012, 8:40 pm
Fnord wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
... the day that God is sexualized is the day that the entire institution becomes unworkable.
Surprise! Whenever a church leader molests a child or is caught visiting a prostitute, the image of G-d becomes sexualized, since people seem to have this knack of equating their religious leaders with the Will of G-d, if not G-d Himself.
Ask some of the Atheists around here; ask them what kind of god would allow his or her representative on Earth to get away with adultery, theft, and murder. I'd wager that to many Atheists, the sins of the priests reflect the Will of G-d.
MarketAndChurch wrote:
It's the people who set up a brothel in a church and most likely think its okay or even elevated to conflate God and sexuality that is troubling...
Either the people who set up the brothel were the church leaders, or the church leaders looked the other way once they saw how much money was coming in. The two surest ways to corrupt church leaders involve sex or money -- usually both.
And the surest way to gain the contempt of B'lievers is to remind them of the fact that Jesus, their Lord and Savior, was "Anatomically Correct", and therefore a sexual being. Since those who have seen Jesus have seen G-d, then G-d Himself must also be a sexual being.
If God became sexualized following a priest raping a child, then it is permissible to sexualize the institution of religion.
That hasn't been the case, and as long as Christians and Jews and Muslims stick to the ethics of the torah, it never will be.
The church doesn't make a great case for itself by tolerating this for decades. But when the People of God found out about it, the fallout was not the legitimacy of the sexualization of the institution of God, but rather, the hunting down of those who betrayed the trust of the people, and those harmed the children, and those who betrayed God by engaging in the act, as a representer of God or partaker in the religion. That is the difference here. Sexualizing the institution of God is saying the activity is permissible. It isn't.
The sins of the priest reflecting the will of God to atheists is of unimportance to me. They will look for any signs to discredit God and the proof is that if the evil done by priests reflect on God's will, what about the good that priests have done, from animating congregations to cleaning up the inner city, to feeding the poor, devoting time to the community, I mean its endless. If evil argues against God, then goodness argues for God but they never frame it in that sense, which means they have all the cards stacked against God to begin with.
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16 Nov 2012, 10:28 am
MarketAndChurch wrote:
Fnord wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
... the day that God is sexualized is the day that the entire institution becomes unworkable.
Surprise! Whenever a church leader molests a child or is caught visiting a prostitute, the image of G-d becomes sexualized, since people seem to have this knack of equating their religious leaders with the Will of G-d, if not G-d Himself.
Ask some of the Atheists around here; ask them what kind of god would allow his or her representative on Earth to get away with adultery, theft, and murder. I'd wager that to many Atheists, the sins of the priests reflect the Will of G-d.
MarketAndChurch wrote:
It's the people who set up a brothel in a church and most likely think its okay or even elevated to conflate God and sexuality that is troubling...
Either the people who set up the brothel were the church leaders, or the church leaders looked the other way once they saw how much money was coming in. The two surest ways to corrupt church leaders involve sex or money -- usually both.
And the surest way to gain the contempt of B'lievers is to remind them of the fact that Jesus, their Lord and Savior, was "Anatomically Correct", and therefore a sexual being. Since those who have seen Jesus have seen G-d, then G-d Himself must also be a sexual being.
If God became sexualized following a priest raping a child, then it is permissible to sexualize the institution of religion.
That hasn't been the case, and as long as Christians and Jews and Muslims stick to the ethics of the torah, it never will be.
The church doesn't make a great case for itself by tolerating this for decades. But when the People of God found out about it, the fallout was not the legitimacy of the sexualization of the institution of God, but rather, the hunting down of those who betrayed the trust of the people, and those harmed the children, and those who betrayed God by engaging in the act, as a representer of God or partaker in the religion. That is the difference here. Sexualizing the institution of God is saying the activity is permissible. It isn't.
The sins of the priest reflecting the will of God to atheists is of unimportance to me. They will look for any signs to discredit God and the proof is that if the evil done by priests reflect on God's will, what about the good that priests have done, from animating congregations to cleaning up the inner city, to feeding the poor, devoting time to the community, I mean its endless. If evil argues against God, then goodness argues for God but they never frame it in that sense, which means they have all the cards stacked against God to begin with.
The abuse scandals exposed the Catholic Church as an institution of hypocrisy and a farce. They literally were not practicing what they preached. And frankly, I think its a little offensive to downplay what happened by trying to imply that the church was merely "tolerating" of this when in fact they sought to cover these things up, reassigning guilty pedophile priests from one parish to another, allowing and practically encouraging the situation to continue, rather than admitting and confessing their sins and going to the legal authorities.
As far as good/evil arguing for/against god, its not a two way street. Suppose there were no god. It would be easy to see how good and evil can occur. But suppose that there is an all-powerful
good god. Would it be the will of such a god for evil acts to occur? No. Would such an all-powerful god, having the power to prevent evil acts to occur, allow those evil acts to occur? I think not. Whether or not those acts are carried out by religious leaders or just nondescript people is of no import. So it makes little sense to use good acts as "proof" of why a good god exists, but it makes plenty of sense that evil acts disprove the existence of a good god.
MarketAndChurch
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Age: 37
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Location: The Peoples Republic Of Portland
16 Nov 2012, 4:00 pm
ScrewyWabbit wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
Fnord wrote:
MarketAndChurch wrote:
... the day that God is sexualized is the day that the entire institution becomes unworkable.
Surprise! Whenever a church leader molests a child or is caught visiting a prostitute, the image of G-d becomes sexualized, since people seem to have this knack of equating their religious leaders with the Will of G-d, if not G-d Himself.
Ask some of the Atheists around here; ask them what kind of god would allow his or her representative on Earth to get away with adultery, theft, and murder. I'd wager that to many Atheists, the sins of the priests reflect the Will of G-d.
MarketAndChurch wrote:
It's the people who set up a brothel in a church and most likely think its okay or even elevated to conflate God and sexuality that is troubling...
Either the people who set up the brothel were the church leaders, or the church leaders looked the other way once they saw how much money was coming in. The two surest ways to corrupt church leaders involve sex or money -- usually both.
And the surest way to gain the contempt of B'lievers is to remind them of the fact that Jesus, their Lord and Savior, was "Anatomically Correct", and therefore a sexual being. Since those who have seen Jesus have seen G-d, then G-d Himself must also be a sexual being.
If God became sexualized following a priest raping a child, then it is permissible to sexualize the institution of religion.
That hasn't been the case, and as long as Christians and Jews and Muslims stick to the ethics of the torah, it never will be.
The church doesn't make a great case for itself by tolerating this for decades. But when the People of God found out about it, the fallout was not the legitimacy of the sexualization of the institution of God, but rather, the hunting down of those who betrayed the trust of the people, and those harmed the children, and those who betrayed God by engaging in the act, as a representer of God or partaker in the religion. That is the difference here. Sexualizing the institution of God is saying the activity is permissible. It isn't.
The sins of the priest reflecting the will of God to atheists is of unimportance to me. They will look for any signs to discredit God and the proof is that if the evil done by priests reflect on God's will, what about the good that priests have done, from animating congregations to cleaning up the inner city, to feeding the poor, devoting time to the community, I mean its endless. If evil argues against God, then goodness argues for God but they never frame it in that sense, which means they have all the cards stacked against God to begin with.
The abuse scandals exposed the Catholic Church as an institution of hypocrisy and a farce. They literally were not practicing what they preached. And frankly, I think its a little offensive to downplay what happened by trying to imply that the church was merely "tolerating" of this when in fact they sought to cover these things up, reassigning guilty pedophile priests from one parish to another, allowing and practically encouraging the situation to continue, rather than admitting and confessing their sins and going to the legal authorities.
As far as good/evil arguing for/against god, its not a two way street. Suppose there were no god. It would be easy to see how good and evil can occur. But suppose that there is an all-powerful
good god. Would it be the will of such a god for evil acts to occur? No. Would such an all-powerful god, having the power to prevent evil acts to occur, allow those evil acts to occur? I think not. Whether or not those acts are carried out by religious leaders or just nondescript people is of no import. So it makes little sense to use good acts as "proof" of why a good god exists, but it makes plenty of sense that evil acts disprove the existence of a good god.
Human is as Human does
What religious or non religious institution does not have an element of, or does not go through a period of hypocrisy or viewed as a farce? You are almost indicting the institution of being human since that is the human condition, amongst many other traits.
"Tolerating"
I wasn't trying to downplay anything. If I came off as trying to downplay it by using the term "Tolerating" then please suggest a word you feel does justice to what happened, and I'll use it instead. "Cover up" doesn't sit well with me because then we're assuming intentions, and I do not know the churches intent, or yours fully to comment on that, but you might know more on the matter so feel free to let me know if thats the case. To which my response is two things: 1.) it doesn't detract from my original comment and, 2.) what was the intent by encouraging the situation and reassigning priest from one parish to the next? I seldom go into the realm of the world of intent because then we're acting like a mind reader, or more malicious: assigning bad intentions to those we don't like unfairly.
If Evil Argues Against God...
The question of suffering does not trouble me one iota. The question of unjust suffering does, and that is the only thing that religious people have to account for if one assumes all of their assumptions and articles of faith are true. When Atheists use bad events to discount God, they too are working under the assumption that a God exists, which is appropriate. But if bad events or evil argues against God, the logical inverse would be that great acts of goodness,... or even menial acts of Goodness argues for God. It makes perfect sense to use good as an argument for God if evil is an argument against God.
Why doesn't God "Prevent" evil?
An all powerful God not "preventing" evil does not necessarily invalidate the above argument, and is its own conversation that I'd like to have with you when I get the time from posting to all the other comments on this forum.
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16 Nov 2012, 4:21 pm
Meanwhile, at the Church of the Most High Goddess
http://www.goddess.org/index.html
http://books.google.com/books?id=vu0DAA ... 22&f=false
http://www.nytimes.com/1990/05/02/us/re ... gewanted=1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ellen_Tracy
Mary Ellen Tracy wrote:
Ancient women possessed power and authority through the use of their intellect and femininity, just as men today have power and authority through their intellect and masculinity. As a Pagan and the High Priestess of The Most High Goddess of the ancient Egyptian Religion, I am aware of the worth of a woman. I do not want to be, nor do I try to be like a man. The ancient Pagan priestess was a guide who lead men on the path to the divine. Men were cleansed and brought to a higher level of spirituality through the rituals of The Goddess. When the influence of male dominated religions increased, the Christians and Moslems killed the priestesses in the name of male gods and destroyed the teachings and writings of the goddess religions. A woman who enjoys sex is no longer killed as a witch, a heretic or an adulteress. But we've still got a long way to go to get back to the open sexual freedom enjoyed by women in the days when the religion of The Goddess covered the earth... We need to progress 'backward' in time and attitude, to pry ourselves out of the 'Dark Ages' of this sex-negative society and truly appreciate and enjoy the wonderful Goddess given gift of our bodies.
She raises some very valid points.
16 Nov 2012, 6:35 pm
If we are going to talk about weird religions then don't forget my favorite.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Priapus_Church
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16 Nov 2012, 6:37 pm
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
If we are going to talk about weird religions then don't forget my favorite.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Priapus_Church
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Priapus_Church
Quote:
the phallus is the source of life, beauty, joy, and pleasure
Well, that does happen to be my favourite appendage.
http://templepriapus.org/
I'd rather stick it in something female, though.
It seems rather cultish, but affordable. http://templepriapus.org/rules_of_order.htm
techstepgenr8tion
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16 Nov 2012, 7:23 pm
If you 1099 all prostitutes the 'religious' aspect won't come into play.
I do think the religious argument is a fail though - ie. that COULD be a slippery slope in terms of being forced to accept Sharia since we'd be leading a trail of jurisprudence (or juris-imprudence) right to that doorstep.
16 Nov 2012, 8:19 pm
ArrantPariah wrote:
Well, that does happen to be my favourite appendage.
_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre
READ THIS -> https://represent.us/
17 Nov 2012, 12:25 am
I love how Mary Ellen Tracy started the Church of the Most High Goddess just to get laid.
This is proof that women are just as dirty and perverted as men.
_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre
READ THIS -> https://represent.us/
17 Nov 2012, 12:40 am
Well? thats one good way of getting tithes to the lord Jesus Christ!
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