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Is There an Anti-Science Conspiracy?
Yes, Fnord; and they're all out to get you, too! 18%  18%  [ 11 ]
Yes, but it is informal and not organized. 32%  32%  [ 19 ]
Maybe, Maybe not. WP is not the Royal Academy of Science. 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
No, people just don't like being told what to think. 30%  30%  [ 18 ]
No, everybody loves science and wants to be scientists! 3%  3%  [ 2 ]
On Planet-X, you can earn a PhD in Ice Cream Science. 8%  8%  [ 5 ]
Other: ________________ (please Elaborate Below). 7%  7%  [ 4 ]
Total votes : 60

Philologos
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30 Apr 2013, 10:30 am

So who - except for some scientist wannabe-but-can'ts- hates science?



Janissy
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30 Apr 2013, 10:37 am

donothing1979 wrote:
there's a whole movement of people in the New Atheist community that don't feel that religion is a huge, monolithic plot to get all of us...

"Richard Dawkins Has Lost – Meet the New New Atheists"

i'm in that camp of people... and i get a lot of flack from hardline atheists for acknowledging that religion has been a driving force in civilization and a lot of the humanist doctrines we have today got their start in religion. not all religious people are bad people, as Fnord said; but this NNA movement is not apologist. we do not forgive the crusades or female genital mutilation, or deny that religion has had it's share of horrors over the years... we just believe that religious thought and religion is more complex than most people in the NA community make it out to be.

as for studies on how much smarter atheists are than religious people, i don't know about that because i haven't done any research on the subject. i do know that here in the US, there is a lot of chest-thumping about who is smarter – Liberals or Conservatives, with Libertarians coming into this picture only occasionally. What i am tending towards thinking about this idea is that it is just outgrouping by both parties, especially when "irrefutable evidence" surfaces supporting one group over another. what upsets me about those studies is the not the subject matter, but the way that the media handles the results... bad reporting contributes to the outgrouping. sometimes the studies aren't as bad as they seem, and the media distorts the facts pretty readily to "sell copy".

i don't believe for one second that that the religious are inferior to me. even their leaders like the late Dwayne Gish, he was not a stupid man, though he was intellectual dishonest and blindly following made up sets of data that supported his hypothesis alone.

for the record: i'm an Igtheist.


I agree. I had to google igtheism to see what you meant but now that I've read a couple google hits it seems like my position too. However I think the word "igtheist" sounds just awful. It sounds like you're trying to say "atheist" but have a terrible cold and are all congested.



jekenai
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30 Apr 2013, 1:27 pm

donothing1979 wrote:
there's a whole movement of people in the New Atheist community that don't feel that religion is a huge, monolithic plot to get all of us...

"Richard Dawkins Has Lost – Meet the New New Atheists"

...


It seems to me like trying to "be in the middle claiming it's the best position anyone can take". Dawkins seems to be criticized in the article for the position he doesn't hold.



donothing1979
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01 May 2013, 12:28 am

Janissy wrote:
donothing1979 wrote:

for the record: i'm an Igtheist.


I agree. I had to google igtheism to see what you meant but now that I've read a couple google hits it seems like my position too. However I think the word "igtheist" sounds just awful. It sounds like you're trying to say "atheist" but have a terrible cold and are all congested.


i once told someone that i am an igtheist, and he looked at me and went... "So, you believe in an omnsicent skyfish?"

...he thought i said "Ichtheist" ;D

jekenal wrote:
t seems to me like trying to "be in the middle claiming it's the best position anyone can take". Dawkins seems to be criticized in the article for the position he doesn't hold.


i wouldn't be so sure. Dawkins's words, past and present, seem to let on that he really does despise religious belief. here and here.

and what's wrong with admitting that the discussion in regard to religion is complicated? how is this article saying that "the middle is the best place to be"? honestly, this article is just showing that not all New Atheists are willing to call names and make faces in a debate.


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OliveOilMom
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01 May 2013, 4:36 am

I think disliking science mainly has to do with the math.


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naturalplastic
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01 May 2013, 3:14 pm

The only reason to dislike anything is to have it served up to you by a perpetually angry, bigoted, and mean spirited, spokesman.

Science is no exception.

Of course NO one on WP is EVER bigoted, nor mean spirited. Thats unheard of.

Im just speaking hypothetically.

But hypothetically- even a science liker like myself could hypothetically be offended by someone advocating science in the wrong way.

Okay- thats not the ONLY reason to dislike something. But it might (hypotheticlly) be a factor in some situations. Just sayin'.



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01 May 2013, 3:53 pm

Science occupies a holy trinity with state religion and politics
The sacred triangle
What rides there on science's back?
Vested interest!



Fnord
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01 May 2013, 7:40 pm

boywonder wrote:
Science occupies a holy trinity with state religion and politics

Evidence, please?



naturalplastic
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01 May 2013, 8:20 pm

boywonder wrote:
Science occupies a holy trinity with state religion and politics
The sacred triangle
What rides there on science's back?
Vested interest!


Meaning...what...exactly?



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01 May 2013, 8:27 pm

donothing1979 wrote:
i once told someone that i am an igtheist, and he looked at me and went... "So, you believe in an omnsicent skyfish?"


I’m sure there was one, but Ceiling Cat ate it.



naturalplastic
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01 May 2013, 8:34 pm

Spiderpig wrote:
donothing1979 wrote:
i once told someone that i am an igtheist, and he looked at me and went... "So, you believe in an omnsicent skyfish?"


I’m sure there was one, but Ceiling Cat ate it.


I guess the listener missheard it as "Icthyiest" ( i guess they would sound exactly the same).



Fnord
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01 May 2013, 8:39 pm

@donothing1979: Is this what you mean?

Wikipedia wrote:
Ignosticism or igtheism is the theological position that every other theological position (including agnosticism and atheism) assumes too much about the concept of God and many other theological concepts ... An ignostic maintains that he cannot even say whether he is a theist or an atheist until a sufficient definition of theism is put forth.



1000Knives
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01 May 2013, 10:46 pm

I don't care about science. I only care about the end result or end product. Science is irrelevant as it lives in a theoretical fairy land of it's own. Science contradicts itself. One study will say ____ does ____, the other will say the opposite. One example is soy.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21427172
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21624456
And then...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224

See that there? They both pretty much say the opposite things. So which one is right? The problem with science is, it's very bad at painting a full picture of anything. Some people see science as absolute, the "God" of everything, and I think this is foolish. Science is only a tool to achieving results.

This is pretty much my only real problem with science. It gets so much into it's own land of theoretics and just says "well it's science, go away!" I think science hasn't evolved much past the Catholic Church calling Galileo a heretic or whatever. Except now "science" is the new religion. "Scientists" said heavier than air flight was impossible back in the times of the Wright Brothers, despite observing birds and bugs doing it everyday.

Quote:
Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality.

-Nikola Tesla

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignaz_Semmelweis
At the time, scientists thought his anecdotal reasoning was wrong. Science has a tendency to just ignore results that can't be explained by current "science" and relegates it to "bro science" and goes on about it's way.

I like Chinese medicine a lot for example. Applying Chinese medicine theory helped me cure a UTI infection doctors couldn't. I had strong antibiotics, and it did nothing. I went to a doctor, and he simply billed $100 and was like "yeah, well, some guys it just hurts down there and it's normal and stuff." Thanks man. It was only after I read Chinese medical theory about "cooling" and "heat" food and body states, did I realize that my problem was too much "heat." And my UTI is gone now. I don't care if science says Chinese medicine is not true, I applied a theory, albeit based off anecdotal evidence, and got results I wanted.



donothing1979
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01 May 2013, 11:06 pm

Fnord wrote:
@donothing1979: Is this what you mean?

Wikipedia wrote:
Ignosticism or igtheism is the theological position that every other theological position (including agnosticism and atheism) assumes too much about the concept of God and many other theological concepts ... An ignostic maintains that he cannot even say whether he is a theist or an atheist until a sufficient definition of theism is put forth.


yes! :D

where's my PM you talked about?


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donothing1979
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01 May 2013, 11:12 pm

1000Knives wrote:
I don't care about science. I only care about the end result or end product. Science is irrelevant as it lives in a theoretical fairy land of it's own. Science contradicts itself. One study will say ____ does ____, the other will say the opposite. One example is soy.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21427172
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21624456
And then...
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19524224

See that there? They both pretty much say the opposite things. So which one is right? The problem with science is, it's very bad at painting a full picture of anything.


obviously, you've made up your mind, and i'm not going to refute what you said, because there are plenty of resources out there that can do it more effectively than i.


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Fnord
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01 May 2013, 11:16 pm

donothing1979 wrote:
Fnord wrote:
@donothing1979: Is this what you mean?

Wikipedia wrote:
Ignosticism or igtheism is the theological position that every other theological position (including agnosticism and atheism) assumes too much about the concept of God and many other theological concepts ... An ignostic maintains that he cannot even say whether he is a theist or an atheist until a sufficient definition of theism is put forth.


yes!

Good. Now people have no reason to call you a fish-head! ;)

donothing1979 wrote:
where's my PM you talked about?

Oh! Thanks for reminding me! It's on its way.

:oops: