Should the government allow complete freedom of speech?

Page 1 of 3 [ 48 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next


Should there be true freedom of speech?
Poll ended at 22 Apr 2013, 2:55 pm
yes 61%  61%  [ 14 ]
no 39%  39%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 23

coffee_converter
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 19 Feb 2013
Gender: Male
Posts: 27

19 Apr 2013, 2:55 pm

The country I'm in has a constitution that guarantees "the right to freedom of speech". Most people
have told me that it doesn't apply in some situations; however I've been thinking about it a lot and I think that complete freedom of speech could actually be made to work. Does anyone have any arguments against it?



redrobin62
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Apr 2012
Age: 61
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,009
Location: Seattle, WA

19 Apr 2013, 3:29 pm

A few situations where freedom of speech wouldn't be allowed or are downright unethical are:

1. Yelling fire in a movie theatre.
2. A delivery doctor telling his patient that her just-delivered baby was born dead, then saying he was just joking.
3. Telling a suicidal jumper up on a roof to go ahead and jump.
4. Someone who isn't black walking up to a group of black people and saying, "Hey, n****rs!"
5. Someone freely and casually using non-pc terms like fa**ot, k*e, jewboy, fatso and ret*d in a public place.

Here's the thing, though.
1. Is it okay for an atheist to walk back and forth in front of a church carrying a sign that says "God is Dead"?
2. Is it okay for pastor Terry Jones from Florida to preach that Islam is a violent religion?
3. Is it okay put up a billboard on the highway that says "Abortion is murder"?



undercaffeinated
Pileated woodpecker
Pileated woodpecker

User avatar

Joined: 28 Oct 2012
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 185
Location: Canada

19 Apr 2013, 3:55 pm

I'm generally in favour of free speech, but not quite unlimited; some restrictions are needed to limit deliberate misinformation, to limit purely or largely malicious speech, and to protect confidentiality. It may also be appropriate to require disclosure of some information in some situations as well, such as citing sources in scientific or technical documentation and indicating potential conflicts of interest.

Personally I think many countries are actually too relaxed when it comes to misinformation. Some of the things businesses and individuals get away with in marketing is already practically lying; the things they imply and the most obvious interpretations of what they say are often meaningless or factually wrong, by design. I don't think the fact that a less obvious, but factually accurate, interpretation also exists makes it any more honest when the intent and expectation are to deceive.



Cornflake
Administrator
Administrator

User avatar

Joined: 30 Oct 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 65,707
Location: Over there

19 Apr 2013, 5:12 pm

[Moved from Autism Politics, Activism, and Media Representation to PPR]


_________________
Giraffe: a ruminant with a view.


visagrunt
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Oct 2009
Age: 56
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,118
Location: Vancouver, BC

20 Apr 2013, 5:55 pm

American Law recognizes eight classes of exceptions to free speech:

1) Incitement. Although a person should be free to express a belief, including advocating the use of violence, a person is not free to incite a person or persons in to direct and immediate violence.
2) False statements. Although a person is free to lie, a person is not free to commit fraud, libel or slander.
3) Obscenity. Controversial, but recognized as a legitimate exception
4) Child pornography. Less controversial, although there are debates about how works of fiction should be treated.
5) Fighting words. Similar but less direct than incitement. Problematic, but still on the books.
6) Threats. Assault, a threat uttered with the apparent means to carry it out, is not protected speech.
7) Proprietary expression. Copyrighted material is owned by the artists who created it.
8) Commercial speech. Commercial speech (i.e. advertising) is subject to far more restriction than individual expression.

While I don't expect that people will universally embrace all of these exceptions, I do think that there are many criminal behaviours that are limitations on "complete" freedom of speech, and properly so.


_________________
--James


Dox47
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Gender: Male
Posts: 13,577
Location: Seattle-ish

20 Apr 2013, 6:00 pm

^
I think we should ditch obscenity, but the others are okay if narrowly tailored.


_________________
“The totally convinced and the totally stupid have too much in common for the resemblance to be accidental.”
-- Robert Anton Wilson


ArrantPariah
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 30 Mar 2012
Age: 120
Gender: Male
Posts: 7,972

20 Apr 2013, 7:02 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDKLFn0pty4[/youtube]



Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

20 Apr 2013, 8:03 pm

Having a security clearance means there are things you can know but cannot disclose them to the un-cleared.
That can bring some prison time in some situations ,depending.


_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson


ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

20 Apr 2013, 10:54 pm

redrobin62 wrote:
4. Someone who isn't black walking up to a group of black people and saying, "Hey, n****rs!"
5. Someone freely and casually using non-pc terms like fa**ot, k*e, jewboy, fatso and ret*d in a public place.



The above are legal utterances. Insults are not illegal per se. However using "fighting words" to whip up a mob is illegal.

ruveyn



Magneto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,086
Location: Blighty

21 Apr 2013, 4:16 am

I don't think a Doctor telling a woman that her newborn is dead should be illegal. I do think the Doctor should be struck off for misconduct though.

Free speech is the right to yell theatre in a crowded fire...

The basis of whether speech should be illegal should be based on... I'm trying to think how to phrase this. Recklessly endangering other people (fire in a theatre example) and lying in order to gain benefit (lying about a contract, false advertising etc). I can't think of anything else right now.

Would my free speech right currently allow me to pay for billboards showing Surah 9:5 to be put up across America? *I'm* not claiming Islam is a violent religion, Mohammed is...



Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

21 Apr 2013, 5:24 am

Magneto wrote:
Would my free speech right currently allow me to pay for billboards showing Surah 9:5 to be put up across America?


Double that with a photo of the Boston bombings and you have a metaphorical Molotov cocktail.

Have you never heard of the American Freedom Defense Initiative's posters? Those are legal.

Image
Image
Image



ruveyn
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Age: 87
Gender: Male
Posts: 31,502
Location: New Jersey

21 Apr 2013, 7:03 am

Magneto wrote:

Free speech is the right to yell theatre in a crowded fire...



The courts have ruled that fomenting a riot, a panic or an insurrection is not protected speech.

ruveyn



fueledbycoffee
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Nov 2010
Age: 37
Gender: Male
Posts: 566
Location: Baltimore

21 Apr 2013, 7:56 am

With some exception, namely situational rules for people with clearances, I think free speech should be completely free. Society has been nibbling around the edges for years now. When you give a little, then you will lose a lot. When's the big bite coming?

As for "hate speech"... sack up, people. You don't need the government protecting you from every little offense. If a guy calls you a *Appropriate epithet here* then kick him in the the crotch.



thomas81
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 May 2012
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,147
Location: County Down, Northern Ireland

21 Apr 2013, 12:44 pm

The problem is its a tremendously abstract and organic scale between inoffensive speech and 'inciting a riot'. Who gets to decide what should constitute legal speech and why?

It sounds like many libertarians support free speech only up until the point it doesn't personally offend them.

If you're going to have free speech, you cant have your cake and eat it. You must have Islamic fatwas and all.


_________________
Being 'normal' is over rated.

My deviant art profile


Magneto
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Jun 2009
Gender: Female
Posts: 2,086
Location: Blighty

21 Apr 2013, 4:31 pm

I'm fine with that. The people trying to enforce the Fatwa, though, should be aware that they will be crushed, and know that they can't complain if anyone calls for all Muslims to be hunted down and killed.



Tequila
Veteran
Veteran

Joined: 25 Feb 2006
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 28,897
Location: Lancashire, UK

21 Apr 2013, 4:33 pm

Magneto wrote:
I'm fine with that. The people trying to enforce the Fatwa, though, should be aware that they will be crushed, and know that they can't complain if anyone calls for all Muslims to be hunted down and killed.


If Muslim clerics consider it OK to call for all gay people or Jews to be killed, then logically there should be no good reason to stop a Nazi (notwithstanding that Nazism was quite friendly to Islam) preacher calling for all Muslims to be killed.