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Kurgan
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14 May 2013, 7:42 pm

Dantac wrote:
Cuba isn't an oppressed nation as the US media has always put it. The economic isolation actually helped them be relatively safe from the IMF's insidious fingers and they learned to lift themselves up from colonialism.


Compared to North Korea or the Saddam-era Iraq, it's not that isolated. It's heavily restricted, though, which prevents growth. Most Cubans recognize American celebrities are well aware of how European cars look like and are familiar with capitalist symbols such as Mickey Mouse and Coca Cola.

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As its stands now Cuba is one of the 4 nations in the planet that could survive the peak oil crisis...because they can produce enough food to feed themselves without using oil products.


And this happened after the farms went private. Farmers with bank accounts worth roughly 200 000 dollars aren't that uncommon in the wealthier countrysides, which is why 90% of the Cuban wealth belongs to 13% of the people.

Thankfully, most Cubans are positive about the new market reforms, though.

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Ironically, #1 in that survival list is N. Korea. 2nd is Cuba. 3rd is Mongolia (though when oil crisis hits it will be invaded by China so it usually gets taken off the list) and 4th is New Zealand. Only one 1st world nation is on that list...and it happens to be only because they have a very low population compared to arable land.


North Korea has a very high malnutrition rate today. Although an oil crisis would make no difference in North Korea, I wouldn't call it "survival".



trollcatman
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14 May 2013, 8:15 pm

^^^ I would say today's capitalist symbols are iPhones and Facebook.
And of course North Korea won't really be affected by an oil crisis. They are also not affected by the current economic crisis because they take no part in the world economy. When you already hit rock bottom nothing can hurt you.



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14 May 2013, 8:29 pm

1000Knives wrote:
http://www.therealcuba.com/

Just look at all the pictures on that site.

Image
Everything looks like it has been literally hit by a bomb.


Is it Cuba or Detroit?


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Greb
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14 May 2013, 8:39 pm

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That was before my time and for the present day I'd just as soon starve them out. They've had their 54 year experiment and it failed.


Well, in the same geographical island you have Haiti, that has a different economic system. So you can compare success in both cases. Bad news it that it looks like the experiment failed in Haiti too, since live conditions in Haiti doesn't seem to be better than in Cuba. Indeed, just the opposite.

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Cuba/Haiti/Economy

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Cuba/Haiti/Health


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Kurgan
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14 May 2013, 9:28 pm

Greb wrote:
Raptor wrote:
That was before my time and for the present day I'd just as soon starve them out. They've had their 54 year experiment and it failed.


Well, in the same geographical island you have Haiti, that has a different economic system. So you can compare success in both cases. Bad news it that it looks like the experiment failed in Haiti too, since live conditions in Haiti doesn't seem to be better than in Cuba. Indeed, just the opposite.

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Cuba/Haiti/Economy

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Cuba/Haiti/Health


The economy of Haiti isn't that much more market oriented than the economy of Cuba. Haiti is also struggling with AIDS, which stalls the growth significantly. Baby Doc also stole a tremendous amount of money when he left the country.



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14 May 2013, 9:40 pm

fueledbycoffee wrote:
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Most Americans except for the cigar lovers could care less about our relations or lack of them with Cuba .


False. Although I smoke, I don't particularly care for cigars, and from the tobacco that I've smoked in the past, I rather prefer Turkish. Never much cared for the American blends, Latin or otherwise.

The reason I want to see Cuba, aside from trusting my own judgment more than others, is because I want to meet the people and understand them. I want to see Havana, in it's preserved historic state. I want to learn from the people there and enjoy their culture, as I have with French people and Russians, Salvadorans and Peruvians and Guajiro. I find foreign cultures interesting, obsessively so, and I think it's a damn shame that unlike anywhere else in the world, I can't drink from the wellspring as far as Cuban culture is concerned.


If Cuba sank tomorrow just about the only people who would be upset would be the Cuban emigres in the Miami area. Cuba is not a hot topic of interest for most Americans. It is a broke country in the Caribbean which is not terribly important to the well being of the United States. Who gives a damn except the occasional commie loving pinko stinko liberal?

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14 May 2013, 9:55 pm

If we ever took a national interest in Cuba we'd probably end up bailing them out (as if we can afford to :roll: ).


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Greb
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14 May 2013, 9:59 pm

Kurgan wrote:
Greb wrote:
Raptor wrote:
That was before my time and for the present day I'd just as soon starve them out. They've had their 54 year experiment and it failed.


Well, in the same geographical island you have Haiti, that has a different economic system. So you can compare success in both cases. Bad news it that it looks like the experiment failed in Haiti too, since live conditions in Haiti doesn't seem to be better than in Cuba. Indeed, just the opposite.

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Cuba/Haiti/Economy

http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/Cuba/Haiti/Health


The economy of Haiti isn't that much more market oriented than the economy of Cuba. Haiti is also struggling with AIDS, which stalls the growth significantly. Baby Doc also stole a tremendous amount of money when he left the country.


And? Every country faces corruption and local networks of interests and plagues and all kind of problems. The issue is precissely how they overcome those problems and build a prosperous society. And AIDS is an universal disease, as long as I know viruses don't understand about political boundaries.

Both Haiti and Cuba have failed their 'experiment'. Indeed, Haiti is even worse.


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15 May 2013, 4:09 am

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The fact remains that most Americans don't care about Cuba one way or the other and neither do I.
Go visit someplace else in its preserved historic state and learn from their people.


You dont need to mention that, its well known around the world, that many US citizens are cultural ignorants. But still thank you, if a not US citizen had told this, he would have get blamed for prejudices. ^^



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15 May 2013, 11:24 am

Schneekugel wrote:
Quote:
The fact remains that most Americans don't care about Cuba one way or the other and neither do I.
Go visit someplace else in its preserved historic state and learn from their people.


You dont need to mention that, its well known around the world, that many US citizens are cultural ignorants. But still thank you, if a not US citizen had told this, he would have get blamed for prejudices. ^^


And it's well known around the world that many people love communism and want to visit one of the communist countries that still exist.
BTW, calling me culturally ignorant is a compliment.


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15 May 2013, 11:31 am

I used to work with someone who was born in Spain, spent his early years in Cuba where his father was a medical doctor, went back to Spain for high school, and then moved to the US for college.

In about 1981 or 1982, his elderly mother was granted permission to come to the United States for a visit. He said that the biggest culture shock for his mother was when they went to a modern American supermarket and she saw the great amount and variety of food available for the first time. He said that even the best supermarkets in Cuba were basically small stores with mostly empty shelves.



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15 May 2013, 4:54 pm

Cuba is hated and such because its a communist country just 50 miles away from Florida, they havent really done anything bad for a while but to USA anything communist is considered evil, stupid in my opinion though.


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15 May 2013, 5:36 pm

/\ /\ /\
Well I suppose maybe it has something to do with the communist legacy of tens of millions of people exterminated and more disappearing into gulags that we backward Americans have our reservations about.


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Kurgan
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15 May 2013, 5:52 pm

AspieOtaku wrote:
Cuba is hated and such because its a communist country just 50 miles away from Florida, they havent really done anything bad for a while but to USA anything communist is considered evil, stupid in my opinion though.


Cuba had concentration camps for homosexuals, Jehova's Witnesses and several other minorities until 1968. People are still killed by police boats while trying to escape and there are still plenty of political prisoners there. The man responsible for all of this didn't resign until 2006--and he gave the power to his brother, the man who was vice president when all this happened.



The_Walrus
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15 May 2013, 6:19 pm

Raptor wrote:
/\ /\ /\
Well I suppose maybe it has something to do with the communist legacy of tens of millions of people exterminated and more disappearing into gulags that we backward Americans have our reservations about.

About as relevant as blaming capitalism for the atrocities committed by the Romans, or blaming capitalism for Guantanamo.



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15 May 2013, 6:49 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Raptor wrote:
/\ /\ /\
Well I suppose maybe it has something to do with the communist legacy of tens of millions of people exterminated and more disappearing into gulags that we backward Americans have our reservations about.

About as relevant as blaming capitalism for the atrocities committed by the Romans, or blaming capitalism for Guantanamo.


Especially since Capitalism didn't even exist in the days of the Romans and it has nothing to do with Guantanamo.