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donnie_darko
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26 Jun 2013, 1:59 am

From what I read online, it seems like most people think that an eye for an eye is the way to go. Do you think people just like to rant on the Internet or do you think the average person really does long for the day when we beheaded and displayed the viscera of criminals as a warning and as a perverse form of public entertainment?



xenon13
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26 Jun 2013, 2:43 am

The viscera of the executed served to increase sympathy for them, a reason why they stopped doing it.



MCalavera
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26 Jun 2013, 4:09 am

Understanding trumps revenge anytime.

Understanding leads to solutions; revenge just leads to further ignorance.



zer0netgain
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26 Jun 2013, 6:57 am

donnie_darko wrote:
From what I read online, it seems like most people think that an eye for an eye is the way to go. Do you think people just like to rant on the Internet or do you think the average person really does long for the day when we beheaded and displayed the viscera of criminals as a warning and as a perverse form of public entertainment?


Mixed feelings here.

I think society must exterminate those who are monsters....not sustain them at the taxpayer's cost. When you look at what some people do, and would do again if given the chance, I can't see how anyone would have compassion for them.



YourMajesty
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26 Jun 2013, 8:14 am

In my country they're enhancing these revenge feelings as they don't punish anymore. You can be violent, beat someone up for no reason whatsoever, you can rob people, break in, even harass, murder or rape, and the punishment will be very minor. That's eventually feeding anger and feelings like "this guy should be crucified" but I doubt many people would actually want to live in a system where such penalties are possible.

I've never found myself expressing or having such violent revenge fantasies but given the lack of consequences for very serious crimes I can imagine that people'd like more medieval style punishments.

These are more feelings than anything else if you ask me. It's easy on the Internet to be anonymous and express your pure emotions in words and your most ugly side.



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26 Jun 2013, 8:48 am

zer0netgain wrote:
I think society must exterminate those who are monsters....not sustain them at the taxpayer's cost. When you look at what some people do, and would do again if given the chance, I can't see how anyone would have compassion for them.


Who defines "monsters" and where do you draw the line? Extermination is final; no chance of appeal or subsequent evidence coming to light showing an error has been made and the person was innocent. Rather like the popular TV character "Dexter" with his "code" killed some innocents by mistake using the same principle of exterminating only the monsters.


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donnie_darko
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26 Jun 2013, 7:53 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
From what I read online, it seems like most people think that an eye for an eye is the way to go. Do you think people just like to rant on the Internet or do you think the average person really does long for the day when we beheaded and displayed the viscera of criminals as a warning and as a perverse form of public entertainment?


Mixed feelings here.

I think society must exterminate those who are monsters....not sustain them at the taxpayer's cost. When you look at what some people do, and would do again if given the chance, I can't see how anyone would have compassion for them.


There's a difference between having compassion and thinking being monstrous in kind is taking it too far. Or is refraining from monstrosity a small form of compassion? :?



donnie_darko
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26 Jun 2013, 7:57 pm

TallyMan wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
I think society must exterminate those who are monsters....not sustain them at the taxpayer's cost. When you look at what some people do, and would do again if given the chance, I can't see how anyone would have compassion for them.


Who defines "monsters" and where do you draw the line? Extermination is final; no chance of appeal or subsequent evidence coming to light showing an error has been made and the person was innocent. Rather like the popular TV character "Dexter" with his "code" killed some innocents by mistake using the same principle of exterminating only the monsters.


A perfect example. Back in '06 there was this news report with a video of this Chinese woman who stomped a kitten to death with stilettos (absolutely disgusting and I wish I never watched it, I don't suggest looking for it).

As a cat lover I thought it was sick and personally I find the woman's act and callous lack of remorse monstrous, but at the same time I'm also a meat eater. I'm sure that the meat industry I support by eating meat has done equally monstrous things to the animals in their care. Many people were saying that woman deserves to die but I say, what right do you have to wish her such a fate? IMO she should be put in a mental hospital, I don't think putting her in a prison (especially a Chinese one) would have any constructive purpose aside from appeasing public outrage.



Last edited by donnie_darko on 26 Jun 2013, 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

donnie_darko
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26 Jun 2013, 8:00 pm

YourMajesty wrote:
In my country they're enhancing these revenge feelings as they don't punish anymore. You can be violent, beat someone up for no reason whatsoever, you can rob people, break in, even harass, murder or rape, and the punishment will be very minor. That's eventually feeding anger and feelings like "this guy should be crucified" but I doubt many people would actually want to live in a system where such penalties are possible.

I've never found myself expressing or having such violent revenge fantasies but given the lack of consequences for very serious crimes I can imagine that people'd like more medieval style punishments.

These are more feelings than anything else if you ask me. It's easy on the Internet to be anonymous and express your pure emotions in words and your most ugly side.


What country are you from? Would it be the UK by any chance?

Here in the US we have harsh punishments for violent crimes (killing someone is likely to give you life and possibly even execution) yet I imagine if you asked the average person they would still find the punishment for violent crime too soft, perhaps because the news tend to report people who get off scott free. Also sex crimes tend to be given light sentences because of the difficulty in proving they happened.

I think most people in America would agree our punishments for drug crimes are far too harsh though.



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26 Jun 2013, 8:13 pm

i agree with life imprinsonment, i find it harsher than the death penalty...
everyone has to die... not everyone has to do the rest of their life in a box



886
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30 Jun 2013, 7:07 am

donnie_darko wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
I think society must exterminate those who are monsters....not sustain them at the taxpayer's cost. When you look at what some people do, and would do again if given the chance, I can't see how anyone would have compassion for them.


Who defines "monsters" and where do you draw the line? Extermination is final; no chance of appeal or subsequent evidence coming to light showing an error has been made and the person was innocent. Rather like the popular TV character "Dexter" with his "code" killed some innocents by mistake using the same principle of exterminating only the monsters.


A perfect example. Back in '06 there was this news report with a video of this Chinese woman who stomped a kitten to death with stilettos (absolutely disgusting and I wish I never watched it, I don't suggest looking for it).

As a cat lover I thought it was sick and personally I find the woman's act and callous lack of remorse monstrous, but at the same time I'm also a meat eater. I'm sure that the meat industry I support by eating meat has done equally monstrous things to the animals in their care. Many people were saying that woman deserves to die but I say, what right do you have to wish her such a fate? IMO she should be put in a mental hospital, I don't think putting her in a prison (especially a Chinese one) would have any constructive purpose aside from appeasing public outrage.


That's a different level of revenge. People who stomp kittens with stilettos do need to be removed from society..

I thought when you say "Revenge" you mean someone keyed your car, do you find them and burn their house down kind of revenge or something.


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YourMajesty
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30 Jun 2013, 7:21 am

donnie_darko wrote:
YourMajesty wrote:
In my country they're enhancing these revenge feelings as they don't punish anymore. You can be violent, beat someone up for no reason whatsoever, you can rob people, break in, even harass, murder or rape, and the punishment will be very minor. That's eventually feeding anger and feelings like "this guy should be crucified" but I doubt many people would actually want to live in a system where such penalties are possible.

I've never found myself expressing or having such violent revenge fantasies but given the lack of consequences for very serious crimes I can imagine that people'd like more medieval style punishments.

These are more feelings than anything else if you ask me. It's easy on the Internet to be anonymous and express your pure emotions in words and your most ugly side.


What country are you from? Would it be the UK by any chance?

Here in the US we have harsh punishments for violent crimes (killing someone is likely to give you life and possibly even execution) yet I imagine if you asked the average person they would still find the punishment for violent crime too soft, perhaps because the news tend to report people who get off scott free. Also sex crimes tend to be given light sentences because of the difficulty in proving they happened.

I think most people in America would agree our punishments for drug crimes are far too harsh though.

Netherlands.

I wouldn't be okay with crucifixion, hanging and such horrible punishments as that'd degrade society and throw us back to the stone age style of society we see in many less civilised countries.

On the other hand, recently we had a guy beaten up by a group randomly, no reason whatsoever, he got abused severely just for being there and being unlucky enough to be found by this group of scumbags. They kicked his head as if it was a playball; the vid (cctv) of that was pretty shocking.

Another example was the kicking and beating a referee to death on the soccer field....

The penalties for these two crimes were simply a joke. The second one I mentioned happened with a group too; the worst verdict was 4 years in prison (6 years in fact but you leave earlier if you behave)

4 years MAX, for violently taking someone's life. I don't want these people do be stoned or buried alive or cooked or whatever, but please, give *some* justice.

And I think such feelings are the reason, at least here, that people on the internet cry for barbaric punishments.



neilson_wheels
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30 Jun 2013, 11:45 am

886 wrote:
donnie_darko wrote:
TallyMan wrote:
zer0netgain wrote:
I think society must exterminate those who are monsters....


Who defines "monsters" and where do you draw the line?....


A perfect example. Back in '06 there was this news report with a video of this Chinese woman who stomped a kitten to death with stilettos (absolutely disgusting and I wish I never watched it, I don't suggest looking for it).

As a cat lover I thought it was sick and personally I find the woman's act and callous lack of remorse monstrous, but at the same time I'm also a meat eater.


That's a different level of revenge. People who stomp kittens with stilettos do need to be removed from society..


In the case of the cat it depends on the standards of the society. A much more recent example of animal treatment in China was seen in the Shanghai Animal Circus earlier this year. For entertainment two monkeys and a bear are forced to bicycle around the arena. After a crash the bear attacks one of the monkeys. Que beating of the bear and attempts to wrench the monkey free from its jaws.

I feel it is also important to remember that caged bears are 'milked' for bile by catheter which is used as 'medicine' in China.

In response to the human issue of the OP, a very recent example is the case of Ian Brady here in the UK. One of the 'Moors Murderers', a convicted killer and sex offender of multiple child victims. He has just been refused an appeal that he be returned to prison from secure hospital. He has just admitted that he played up to a psychological diagnosis to benefit from a more comfortable incarceration in the hospital, now he wants to be returned to prison as he is sick of his life and wants to starve himself to death. He receives a more harsh punishment by being kept alive but the cost of his recent 8 day tribunal is estimated to have cost £250,000 alone.



neilson_wheels
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30 Jun 2013, 11:59 am

I did read about the Dutch football referee too.

Such a tragic case, a guy who had put so much effort into providing football for these guys to then be killed for a decision made during a game.

These guys want to be respected but do not seem to know the definition of the word or consider that like most things in life it is a two way street.



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30 Jun 2013, 1:07 pm

An eye for an eye is the fairest punishment of all. Unfortunately it would be a very difficult policy to perfectly enforce. People who inflict pain on others don't deserve a lesser fate than what they brought to them. They deserve exactly the same fate. Being negligent of the feelings of others, simply because you can't feel their pain, isn't an excuse to cause pain to anyone on purpose. Any lesser punishment than an eye for an eye seems to support the idea that just because someone is more selfish than they are altruistic, that they are somewhat more justified in causing pain to others. I don't cut any slack for the heinous crimes of others, simply because they are bad people that are expected to act in that way. No one who causes pain to others, that they would not tolerate being inflicted on themselves, is justified in thinking that they deserve a lesser fate.