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Thagomizer
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28 Jan 2006, 12:53 am

SuXEed wrote:
On the latter point, could it not be argued that the cosmological 'proof' for the existence of God is speculation too? The cosmological argument is the one that makes mem most curious. There must be some form of brute fact, be it a God or matter, for anythin else to occur. If the mater is created, who created it, God? If so, who created God? Most peopel just say 'God has existed since the beginning of time' and are satisfied, but why can't this apply to matter? At some point there will be some kind of prime mover, an uncaused causer, and this will require the suspension of logic somewhat.
To my understanding, asking "Who created God?" is meaningless because it assumes a self-contradiction, like asking "Who created the sqaure cicle?" However, I also understand that this does not in any way resolve the issue. There are many possible solutions to the omnipotence paradox, though each one is pretty damn confusing about it's implications in the cosmological argument. The dark of the matter's still dark . . .

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Also, regarding the non-literal interpretation of Genesis, it is most curious that it was interpreted literally until something from it was proved to be wrong. Faith is so strong that they will change their argument and change their entire perception of evidence. Suddenly there were not 6 days the world was created in but 6 time periods. Christians claimed the 40 day flood was real until studies of the soil proved otherwise. People believed the Earth was 4,000 years old until once more, scientific study proved otherwise. If people will change their perceptions so easily, how can they be so sure their perceptions and interpretations of the bible are right?
While I can't ignore evidence that shows how the world is and was, I wouldn't want to keep revising Genesis as it fits the needs of science if I am to take my own religion seriously. The people who want to continue believing in a literal interpretation of Genesis as it would pertain to the actual creation of the world are missing the point. IMO, it's like reading one of Aseop's fables, ignoring the point of the story, and trying to find a way to make it literal history. Whatever truth is in Genesis, I believe it is about us and our relationship with God, not the history of the world.


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kevv729
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28 Jan 2006, 9:10 am

Blaming God does not get nobody anything, for can or could or should We Blame Anybody or even Ourselves I say No in the end. For it is Nobodies Fault at All. Not Ourselves or Anybody else either. So why sould We Blame Anybody or even Ourselves in the end. For it makes No Sence at All. Not even Blaming God is going to Change ANYTHING in Our Lives will it No not at All in the end.


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06 Feb 2006, 4:21 pm

im christian but not the most religious person in the world. i dont about you saying if God appoligizes, God doesn't talk to us ok, you talk to him in prayer but he never responds. and why would god make us aspies, i would say due to our genetic code, and i do not feel burdened to be mildly aspie-ish. a better question is why does god let people be borned with severe defects, or in the case of the dead miners, why tell the families they are alive only to report actually they are dead later on?



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20 Jan 2007, 7:57 am

Like a lot of people said, why God does what he does cannot be completely understood. But I think He created autism as part of the diversity of the human race. We are here to be a part of the world and to help improve it. Also, life would be too boring without diversity. You have to suffer in order to realize what the happiness feels like. Otherwise you might take it for granted. If an Aspie has been looking for friends for a very long time, and finally gets some, he/she will be very happy. Whereas an NT who already has friends might take them for granted. I think we have the power to appreciate more things than NTs can.



Flagg
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21 Jan 2007, 2:51 am

Don't believe in "Gods"



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21 Jan 2007, 12:59 pm

Aspies are given certain gifts as well as certain curses. It's up to each of us individually to make the best of what we have. Whether God, fate or happenstance stitched us together like that is irrelevant.



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22 Jan 2007, 6:40 am

Tom wrote:
I feel very suprised when I see Christian aspies on the net. I just don't understand how you could reconcile that belief with who you are. Seeing as lots of religious people believe God "speaks to them", does he ever provide an apology or explanation as to why some people have to have asperger's, or any condition or disability?[/i]


first I'd have to see aspergers as a disability

it is a paralell track to my assessment, instead of thinking one set of ways we think another, in a lot of ways our way works better, in some few frustrating ones it doesn't work as well, acceptable tradeoff in my opinion



sigholdaccountlost
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31 Jan 2007, 5:25 pm

If we use the literal version: Don't we aspies tend to be literal, at least according to the Dm?
This is points. These are my comments

. God created the world in seven days Wouldn't you need to be more focused than the average NT to accompolish that?[\i]
.He laid clear rules [i]A strong liking for rules...hmmm.

.The routine or rules were broken - which angered him. Sound familiar?
.Another instance of liking rules regarding the right kind of offerings. How about now?
.Even in the midst of regret, he was logical in the story of Noah. Haven't lots of people, Nt or otherwise, said that aspies tended to be logical?
.Symbols have a clear meaning defined early on. Well...don't NTs just know via reading body language and stuf?f
.In 'Babbling tongues/babylon' the people talk to each other. He justs talks, seemingly to himself and seems to remain distant. The lone person - how many can relate to that?
.Then 'God' calls Abraham. He doesn't say 'Hello.' 'How are you?' or bother with any of the social niceties He simply tells Abraham the plan. Don't a lot of us find at least some of the social niceties a waste of time, effort and energy and wish people would simply get to the point?
.'God' might have been slow but he got there in the end regarding Abraham's son. I relate to this...granted, some might be dyspraxia but I'll ask Dom.[\i]
.In the part regarding the story of the city of Sodom, 'God' speaks to Abraham again. He doesn't bother with the social niceties this time, either. Once more, He simply gets straight to the point. [i]A little blunt...perhaps?


The three men
.'When I come back here in nine months, Sarah will have a son'. Straight to the point again...no social niceties. Begining to see a pattern yet
.Sarah laughs so the man that's really God asked why she laughed and reitrartes that they will have a son in nine months. Now, I could be wrong but I think the average NT would be more likely to ask about doubt then the actual response?



and that's not even the whole of genesis!


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07 Feb 2007, 7:59 pm

thats a nice question,i have asked that to myself.
for me,its because if i wasnt an "aspie",or just u know a lot of people that differ, from the " common(majority)'NT' " and at the same time "we" fit in a group with similarities are labelled with a name such as "aspergers syndrome",but i do not see it as pride or weird mental people.men created the term aspergers and all that,God made us all different with similarities within,which later on we seemed to recognize them and label them with names(not only in syndromes).
and for me i know it was to take care of me from this planet,because if i woulnd have been like this i would have fallen for fornication and wickedness.more like he made me like this to keep me busy with questions and knowledge instead of fame,money,pride or the "normal life" which to my eyes sucks a lot,because its like all copy cat crap and annoys me.
and all of us (as a group) like this(aspie) because u need difference and variety in creation to know theres only one of its kind like the creator,no one is like him,far from fully understanding him ever,God is one.

peace



jspark-311
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15 Feb 2007, 3:16 am

Searching for human-level answers where none exist has caused a great deal of suffering and bigotry for as long as we have been a species.

There is no "why" about it. Even if God does exist, there is no evidence to suggest that he is anything other than indifferent. The Universe (or God) just follows rules. There is no deliberation, plan, or ethical consideration. These are strictly features of intelligent minds.


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Xuincherguixe
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15 Feb 2007, 4:42 am

Even if it was an entirely negative state of being, which it isn't, there have been many people in 'bad' positions that still believed in god.

For many Christians, there is a belief of free will as a very powerful force. And in a way, it's kind of a godlike power in of itself. It allows one to go against what god has set things to be. So, evil by in large can be attributed to that, and the rejection of god. (I'm sure that an actual Christian could put it in better terms)

But on the other hand, there are positive aspects to it. One could go to the level as to say, 'God made us to do math' and 'solve problems', and 'write software'.

I think someone has been listening too much to the pawns of the devil that don't want people to be able to live with themselves :P*


*That was a joke people


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MarieElana
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15 Feb 2007, 8:55 am

Asspie is just a set of human faults; we have it because we are human, I guess. I don't believe an alleged god or such 'made' us this way, it's just how we are


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18 Feb 2007, 9:56 pm

aspergian_mutant wrote:
No, god made aspies for others to pick on and take their frustrations out on so they don't pick on any of his others cattle and sin by doing them wrong, someone has to take the burn if people are to learn and grow, someone has to be the fall guy, why not us?
you don't think god would want the likes of us in heaven do you?!?
so go out and raise hell!.
:twisted:


But bullying people with Asperger's Syndrome is also sinning. And why do you not think that God would want us in Heaven, given His forgiveness and mercy of worse sinners than most aspergians? Define "raise hell".


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18 Feb 2007, 9:59 pm

Postperson wrote:
In my bible-reading days, I used to think that you could take a lot of the references to 'chosen' people or 'saved' people in the old testament and apply them to AS...'they shall be without guile' and all that sort of thing.

Besides, there's all the other new testament (NT, lol) stuff about Jesus saying: 'if the world hates you, remember that before you it hated me' (sorry for my weak quote memory). Sometimes I think Jesus may have had AS.


You appear to have quite a good memory for quotations, unless you mean the lack of chapter and verse references. A very interesting contribution to this discussion. I look forward to hearing more from you.


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21 Feb 2007, 3:13 am

thechadmaster wrote:
Dont think of AS as a curse but a an intellectual gift from God.


WARNING: LONG POST

All, I have to say is. Wow! I totally felt this sentence. First, I just want to share some things with everyone. I used to be like some of you out there asking the "why" question when I was a kid. "Why me?" That kind of thing. And I used to go to church with my family every sunday, but it never did anything for me. I never felt any different than what I was doing in my every day life during the week. I tried because I wanted to know the answer to the why question. I wanted to know, what my parents were trying to put upon us children and for us to learn and grow spiritually. It never happened for me. For me, I always wanted hard evidence, because it was hard for me to think outside the box (it still is) and to see something that wasn't there.

Anyways, now I go to school in the southern US, where that region is part of the "Bible Belt" and at first, i didn't know if i wanted to get back into the religious/spiritual part of my life again after not being a part of it for so long. Well, a friend of mine talked me into going to one of the campus ministries with her, and a year later, I'm still there and have added other campus ministries to my activites as well.

Now, another thing you have to understand is that I come from the midwest and grew up in the traditional church and coming down here, I have kind of gone out of my shell and have been to very contemporary services down here and I continue going to them. It has been a totally new experience for me. I guess you could say that I've been sort of a born again Christian.

Because of this experience, I've come to grow as a person and have to come to understand and accept myself as a person and to know that there was a reason why I am what I am today. I still have questions about my faith (thinking outside the box again) but I really would like to learn. Really, what I want to know is what it feels like to know that you're in the presence of God, things like that.

Going back to the quote. "Intellectual gift" just made me realize even more that yes, i really do know who i am and that this isn't a bad thing to have. It has made me realize that I can work with Asperger's and play upon my strengths and to make them even more stronger and maybe eventually my weaknesses will just fade away. Yes, they will be there, but I won't be too worried about them because i would be confident in myself. I would have the knowledge to know what I am good at and what i can work with.

I just wanted to share my story with everyone. I'm not trying to change people's ways or anything. Just wanted to share my story. I do have questions and I used to be and maybe still very doubtful about certain things, but I really would like to learn and grown spiritually.


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21 Feb 2007, 3:56 am

God gives each individual person the abilitys to carry out his/her purpose on the earth. If that ability includes a factor of AS, weather good or bad, then I'm willing to accept it.
It's just my perspective, but oh well. All I'm saying is we have something unique, and we know it. We have the power to make a diference like nothing before. We should take that opertunity.