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Vexcalibur
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26 Oct 2013, 12:55 am

Actually "self-proclaimed feminists" . These people are vile penis-obsessed scum.

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/11/the_hat ... s_partner/

Just recently these awful bigots joined forced with "The Pacific Justice Institute" (Yeah, a homophobic "ex gay" group. And to think TERFs claim to be lesbians) just so they can bully a trans teen. The teen in question is in suicide watch.

The story is awful and just the tip of the iceberg of the levels of abuse TERFs can go.

http://www.transadvocate.com/anti-gay-a ... s-fake.htm
http://www.transadvocate.com/what-happe ... arents.htm
http://www.transadvocate.com/pji-suppor ... llying.htm


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Moviefan2k4
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26 Oct 2013, 1:09 am

Its politically incorrect, but still true: gender identity is not manufactured. You are either born a man or a woman, not both. If you feel your emotions don't match your body, get some psychological and spiritual help. Don't butcher your body to resemble someone you were never designed to be.

That said, no one should be treated with hateful signs or demeaning behavior; it makes the opposition no better than folks like the Westboro Baptists, who tormented the families of homosexual soldiers during funeral services! :evil:


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AspieOtaku
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26 Oct 2013, 11:21 am

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_meDCOnqWao[/youtube]


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LKL
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26 Oct 2013, 11:30 pm

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
Its politically incorrect, but still true: gender identity is not manufactured. You are either born a man or a woman, not both.

citation needed
Quote:
If you feel your emotions don't match your body, get some psychological and spiritual help. Don't butcher your body to resemble someone you were never designed to be.

surgeons don't generally do gender reassignment without heavy counseling of the patient first, here in the US. Many of them require that the patient live as trans (ie, dress and identify as the opposite gender) for several months before surgery, to make sure that the patient knows what they're getting in to.

Quote:
That said, no one should be treated with hateful signs or demeaning behavior; it makes the opposition no better than folks like the Westboro Baptists, who tormented the families of homosexual soldiers during funeral services! :evil:

yeah, I really don't understand the need that some people have to demonize other people who are causing them no harm whatsoever.



andrethemoogle
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27 Oct 2013, 12:31 am

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
Its politically incorrect, but still true: gender identity is not manufactured. You are either born a man or a woman, not both. If you feel your emotions don't match your body, get some psychological and spiritual help. Don't butcher your body to resemble someone you were never designed to be.


I'm sorry but that is wrong. Gender Identity Disorder is a very real thing and it really should not be a focus on judging a person. Some people are born into the wrong body, some people aren't. No one is perfect.

Who are you to say if a person feels like a man / woman and they were born into the opposite body that they are wrong? The majority of individuals who have GID have had these feelings since a young age. Spiritual help will not help everyone, as not everyone is religious or spiritual ( I myself am Catholic but I lean very far to the left, I don't judge people)



beneficii
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27 Oct 2013, 1:00 am

LKL wrote:
Moviefan2k4 wrote:
Its politically incorrect, but still true: gender identity is not manufactured. You are either born a man or a woman, not both.

citation needed
Quote:
If you feel your emotions don't match your body, get some psychological and spiritual help. Don't butcher your body to resemble someone you were never designed to be.

surgeons don't generally do gender reassignment without heavy counseling of the patient first, here in the US. Many of them require that the patient live as trans (ie, dress and identify as the opposite gender) for several months before surgery, to make sure that the patient knows what they're getting in to.

Quote:
That said, no one should be treated with hateful signs or demeaning behavior; it makes the opposition no better than folks like the Westboro Baptists, who tormented the families of homosexual soldiers during funeral services! :evil:

yeah, I really don't understand the need that some people have to demonize other people who are causing them no harm whatsoever.


They also require that you have insurance that covers it (which isn't very common, though it is becoming more common) or lots of money. :P



Moviefan2k4
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27 Oct 2013, 1:15 am

andrethemoogle wrote:
Who are you to say if a person feels like a man / woman and they were born into the opposite body that they are wrong?
I didn't define objective truth, so its not my call. God designed the human body and mind; I'm merely referencing the obvious. Look in the mirror; your reflection is proof of the gender you were deliberately designed with.

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The majority of individuals who have GID have had these feelings since a young age. Spiritual help will not help everyone, as not everyone is religious or spiritual ( I myself am Catholic but I lean very far to the left, I don't judge people)
Its an old saying, and I don't always like hearing it myself, but its still true: you can't help those who don't want it. God gave us all free will, but some choices are inherently destructive to our minds and souls. I was raised predominantly around women myself, and I have some stereotypically "feminine" mannerisms as a result...but I was born a man, and God doesn't make mistakes. He doesn't give people the right body with the wrong desire, or vice versa. People who continually argue emotional design conveniently ignore the same about the body they were born with.


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albedo
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27 Oct 2013, 4:39 am

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
Its politically incorrect, but still true: gender identity is not manufactured. You are either born a man or a woman, not both.


This is factually incorrect. You obviously haven't heard of hermaphrodite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermaphrodite
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex



The_Walrus
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27 Oct 2013, 7:27 am

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
andrethemoogle wrote:
Who are you to say if a person feels like a man / woman and they were born into the opposite body that they are wrong?
I didn't define objective truth, so its not my call. God designed the human body and mind; I'm merely referencing the obvious. Look in the mirror; your reflection is proof of the gender you were deliberately designed with.

Quote:
The majority of individuals who have GID have had these feelings since a young age. Spiritual help will not help everyone, as not everyone is religious or spiritual ( I myself am Catholic but I lean very far to the left, I don't judge people)
Its an old saying, and I don't always like hearing it myself, but its still true: you can't help those who don't want it. God gave us all free will, but some choices are inherently destructive to our minds and souls. I was raised predominantly around women myself, and I have some stereotypically "feminine" mannerisms as a result...but I was born a man, and God doesn't make mistakes. He doesn't give people the right body with the wrong desire, or vice versa. People who continually argue emotional design conveniently ignore the same about the body they were born with.

Gender isn't related to your body, but rather your mind. You are referring to sex.

God clearly does make mistakes otherwise we wouldn't have things like childhood leukaemia.
If you believe leukaemia is a test, judgement, or something else created by God deliberately, why couldn't the same be true of mismatches between gender and sex?



GGPViper
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27 Oct 2013, 8:30 am

With Cathy Brennan joining forces with the Pacific Justice Institute, I just remembered this comic.

Image



LKL
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27 Oct 2013, 9:51 pm

^love it.



puddingmouse
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28 Oct 2013, 5:32 am

Oh, radical feminists. When I was getting into feminism, I sought their views out because I found particularly the theory that patriarchy is the primary power structure and needs to go before anything else can be achieved interesting. I also felt excluded by third-wave feminism (and still do, which is strange because it focuses so much on being intersectional.)

Then I realised that they spent a lot of time hating transwomen and stopped reading their blogs. I also felt somewhat excluded by them for being bisexual - but even though radfems seem more judgemental, I didn't feel as excluded by them as I did by third-wavers - which is also strange, but that's really a different topic. You'd think being bi and somewhat genderqueer, I'd feel happy with the third wavers, but I don't feel happy in either camp (I know some of the nastier radfems would come for people like me if they weren't focused on hating transwomen, just because some of them are hateful full stop.) So I just stay outside both movements and look at them for their ideas.

Some of their theories about gender identity aren't evil and are worth considering if only to learn why you disagree with them. On an intellectual level, I wouldn't want them to shut up. On a social/emotional level, some of their behaviour is appalling and some of them act like bullies, which discredits their ideas in the eyes of nearly everyone.


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JanuaryMan
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28 Oct 2013, 7:29 am

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
andrethemoogle wrote:
Who are you to say if a person feels like a man / woman and they were born into the opposite body that they are wrong?
I didn't define objective truth, so its not my call. God designed the human body and mind; I'm merely referencing the obvious. Look in the mirror; your reflection is proof of the gender you were deliberately designed with.
Do you honestly believe that? Also, what is your view on hermaphrodites? If they have both sets of genitalia but only one gender of face, how does God explain that?

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
andrethemoogle wrote:
The majority of individuals who have GID have had these feelings since a young age. Spiritual help will not help everyone, as not everyone is religious or spiritual ( I myself am Catholic but I lean very far to the left, I don't judge people)
Its an old saying, and I don't always like hearing it myself, but its still true: you can't help those who don't want it. God gave us all free will, but some choices are inherently destructive to our minds and souls. I was raised predominantly around women myself, and I have some stereotypically "feminine" mannerisms as a result...but I was born a man, and God doesn't make mistakes. He doesn't give people the right body with the wrong desire, or vice versa. People who continually argue emotional design conveniently ignore the same about the body they were born with.
How about looking at it this way so both your arguments can co exist and be accurate. God didn't make a mistake, but even so that is not what the person he brought into the world wants to be. Your God gave everyone free will, correct? Therefore many are making use of that fit to be who they want to be or feel they should be. Imagine a family which had farmers as the breadwinners for generations, and one descendant decides to be a painter and it works out for him and he becomes successful. In that case God also didn't make a mistake, yet the person was able to choose a decision against God and live to the better comfort of themself. I'm aware such indulgence treads around the ideas of defying God but frankly you and every other human being go against at least one thing in the bible every day. It would be hypocritical to judge someone for simply doing the same.

Edit: To keep to the actual topic - radicals can hijack and pervert any cause, and as per usual feminism is being overridden by non egalitarians and self serving bigots.



Last edited by JanuaryMan on 28 Oct 2013, 11:10 am, edited 1 time in total.

MCalavera
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28 Oct 2013, 10:21 am

Free will ... as if it exists, Moviefan.



AspieOtaku
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28 Oct 2013, 12:01 pm

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sj977cFBuKk[/youtube]


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