Poeple choosing to be gay and social stigma.

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Housedays
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06 Dec 2013, 1:40 pm

People choose to smoke, regardless of the social stigma about smoking, so why do people use the social stigma argument against people choosing to be gay? People also choose to eat their boogers, despite there being a strong stigma about such. Note that I don't really believe people choose myself. I don't think social stigma though is the best argument against it being a choice though.



GGPViper
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06 Dec 2013, 1:42 pm

Uhh, what?

First you say that people choose to be gay (which - according to the scientific evidence - is false)...

Then you say that you "don't really believe people choose"...

Which one is it?



Mamselle
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06 Dec 2013, 1:51 pm

The "people choose to be gay" argument falls apart when taken to its logical conclusion--because if gay people chose, then all of us must have chosen. Does anyone here remember choosing to be straight? No.

People who actually believe sexuality is "chosen" believe that because it puts them in the position of having chosen "correctly," and they then feel justified in condemning those who appear to have "chosen" otherwise.



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06 Dec 2013, 1:58 pm

GGPViper wrote:
Uhh, what?

First you say that people choose to be gay (which - according to the scientific evidence - is false)...

Then you say that you "don't really believe people choose"...

Which one is it?
He doesn't believe people choose to be gay, he just thinks "you wouldn't choose to be gay because there is a social stigma" is a weak argument.



naturalplastic
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06 Dec 2013, 2:16 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
Uhh, what?

First you say that people choose to be gay (which - according to the scientific evidence - is false)...

Then you say that you "don't really believe people choose"...

Which one is it?
He doesn't believe people choose to be gay, he just thinks "you wouldn't choose to be gay because there is a social stigma" is a weak argument.


That maybe what he is saying.
But then in the first line of his post he starts with a bad example that disproves what he is saying with "people choose to smoke despite a social stigma".

The only demographic who ever take up smoking is teens. Teens take up smoking for one reason, and one reason only. That reason being that AMONG TEENS there is a social stigma against NOT smoking, and its considered cool TO smoke. By the time smokers leave their teens the peer pressure starts to go the other way, but they continue to smoke into adulthood anyway because of chemical addiction to nicotine.



Kurgan
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06 Dec 2013, 2:24 pm

Housedays wrote:
People choose to smoke, regardless of the social stigma about smoking, so why do people use the social stigma argument against people choosing to be gay? People also choose to eat their boogers, despite there being a strong stigma about such. Note that I don't really believe people choose myself. I don't think social stigma though is the best argument against it being a choice though.


Did any homosexuals incarcerated in North Korean concentration camps actually choose to be gay?



thomas81
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06 Dec 2013, 2:30 pm

Housedays wrote:
People choose to smoke, regardless of the social stigma about smoking, so why do people use the social stigma argument against people choosing to be gay? People also choose to eat their boogers, despite there being a strong stigma about such. Note that I don't really believe people choose myself. I don't think social stigma though is the best argument against it being a choice though.


Gays don't 'choose' to be gay anymore than straights choose to be straight.

Why on earth would someone 'choose' to be bullied, socially marginalised and afforded fewer civic rights and respect?


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thomas81
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06 Dec 2013, 2:31 pm

Kurgan wrote:

Did any homosexuals incarcerated in North Korean concentration camps actually choose to be gay?


I would've said did any homosexuals in Nazi Germany that went to the concentration camps choose to be but whatever... ... :scratch:

The state of LGBT living in NK is unknown but is probably closer to Russia or China if anything. Gay rights aren't protected in NK but there is no legislation that is actively persecuting them. There is no 'pink purge' in North Korea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_in_North_Korea


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IrishJew
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07 Dec 2013, 2:43 pm

No need to invoke science here. It's simply common sense. I don't like athletic women because I CHOOSE to like athletic women. I like athletic women because that's simply what I find attractive. There's no social stigma against being attracted to athletic women, but there are STILL drawbacks. Namely, SO MANY guys like athletic women so I'm in a very competitive market. It would be easier for me if I happened to be attracted to men that had beer-bellies because I could have my pick so easily.

I imagine that for any value of "x", the statement "I am attracted to x" will have drawbacks for all x.



The_Walrus
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07 Dec 2013, 4:30 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
The_Walrus wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
Uhh, what?

First you say that people choose to be gay (which - according to the scientific evidence - is false)...

Then you say that you "don't really believe people choose"...

Which one is it?
He doesn't believe people choose to be gay, he just thinks "you wouldn't choose to be gay because there is a social stigma" is a weak argument.


That maybe what he is saying.
But then in the first line of his post he starts with a bad example that disproves what he is saying with "people choose to smoke despite a social stigma".

The only demographic who ever take up smoking is teens. Teens take up smoking for one reason, and one reason only. That reason being that AMONG TEENS there is a social stigma against NOT smoking, and its considered cool TO smoke. By the time smokers leave their teens the peer pressure starts to go the other way, but they continue to smoke into adulthood anyway because of chemical addiction to nicotine.

I agree in general. However, I do think you are generalising. 10% of people start smoking after the age of 18, and some teens take up smoking even amongst social groups that stigmatise smoking (though that might just be anecdotal).



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07 Dec 2013, 11:08 pm

thomas81 wrote:
Housedays wrote:
People choose to smoke, regardless of the social stigma about smoking, so why do people use the social stigma argument against people choosing to be gay? People also choose to eat their boogers, despite there being a strong stigma about such. Note that I don't really believe people choose myself. I don't think social stigma though is the best argument against it being a choice though.


Gays don't 'choose' to be gay anymore than straights choose to be straight.

Why on earth would someone 'choose' to be bullied, socially marginalised and afforded fewer civic rights and respect?


Pretty sure you are missing his point...


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