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tern
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13 Dec 2013, 10:30 am

wornlight wrote:
the smallest moment in time must have a beginning a middle and an end if it has any duration whatsoever.
that being the case, the smallest moment is comprised of three smaller moments, each of which, if it has any duration at all, has a beginning, a middle, and an end, and therefore is not the smallest.

Ah, but the end of a moment of time is its resultant state after it has happened. A moment to be real in its passing, an event to be real in its happening, happen with the effect of change effected by every action there is in the moment. Events, effects, happenings, are only real if they really happen. They only have a reality as happening if they happen into a resultant state of having happened. So their own reality includes the reality of the resultant state that follows them.

it follows that the reality of every moment in time includes the resultant state that follows it. But by being a different point of perpective, a changed resultant state, that follows it, it is another moment of time! The successor monent. Surely, just by thought from our observation of time, we can see that this is how each moment leads into another, how a sequence is made. The reality of every moment of time includes its successor moment. The end of every moment is the next moment.

* This succession being infinitely sustaining and unbreakable, it establishes that time can never end. Even if the universe recollapses, which matter density evidences it won't, it would still be impossible for time to end.

* It holds for the experience of time the same as for time's absolute existence, so it establishes that any particle whose properties include conscious experience of time, a spirit, can never end. It's its own timeline that can never end, so it can have time jumps relative to the universal time outside itself, periods of unconsciousness, it just can never have an end point. In every period of unconsciousness its unbreakable flow from one moment into its successor is being drawn out, like a delayed bounce or a wave, so that the successor moment is a time gap later as compared to universal time. This establishes life after death.

* If particle whose properties include conscious experience of time, a spirit, shares this property with time itself, then this is less likely to be a conicidence than to indicate they are the same thing. That spirits, ourselves, actually are time at its particle level.

* In which case, it may only be as an inevitable consequence of spirits' existence, driven by us, that a universal time and progress of events exists at all. An emergent property of spirits in a system. After all, it's a mystery in physics what else drives time.



leafplant
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14 Dec 2013, 10:40 am

time exists because it is one of the expressions of the fundamental nature of everything which is oscillatory



ruveyn
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14 Dec 2013, 11:27 am

There is always a halfway point between any two spaces or times, right? So, to go from any space to another or any point in time to another, you would have to pass the halfway point, which will always be between you and your destination. So you can never get there.[/quote]

This was nonsense when Zeno stated it and it is nonsense now. The time intervals get shorter and shorter in such a way that when you sum them up the sum is a finite number. That is the arrival time.

ruveyn



IreneS
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14 Dec 2013, 4:40 pm

Time doesn't exist.



Fnord
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14 Dec 2013, 4:43 pm

ruveyn wrote:
Time exists to keep everything from happening all at once.

Space exists to keep everything from being in the same place at the same time.

ruveyn

Can you explain why the platypus exists?

:wink:



wornlight
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14 Dec 2013, 6:01 pm

reasons are caused by demands for justification.



ruveyn
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14 Dec 2013, 7:25 pm

IreneS wrote:
Time doesn't exist.


When did you come to that conclusion?

ruveyn



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15 Dec 2013, 12:11 am

Time exists. Space exists. But what about math? And what about logic? Do they exist?



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15 Dec 2013, 2:16 am

Time does exist.
It just can be perceived in many different ways.


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poemadayguy
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15 Dec 2013, 9:20 am

Robdemanc wrote:
Do we know yet if there is a smallest division of time? I have heard of the planck length but is that the smallest division of space/time.

I like to think time is not linear but has dimensions like space.


Yes, I believe the smallest measurement of time is called a planck second named after Max Planck, who was the first to propose it. It is defined as the time it takes light to travel a planck length, equal to 1.616199(97)×10−35 metres.



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15 Dec 2013, 1:42 pm

It's too philosophical for me.

Yay! I spelt philosophical right :D

I'm buzzin' now.



SheLcifuR
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15 Dec 2013, 5:40 pm

I read a few of your posts.... I can't say I have ever obsessed over 'Time.' Yinz are then using extremely elongated words and following what seems to be something along the lines of the quantum level. I never really got into quantum studies, I did graze on it while I was in High school, but I always thought I had Bigger Ideas about the topic... or rather, smaller Ideas, like extremely smaller than anyone can imagine. But anyway, back to the Time thing... I wouldn't Consider Time to be something that exists. Time is a Measurement. It is a Tool we use to help us Collect Data. Time wouldn't 'exist' if We didn't think it to be so. We could just be a bunch of planets and stars and people that are just Being... But somewhere along the 'Cyclical Time Spiral' we decided we didnt want to just BE. We wanted to KNOW.



IreneS
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16 Dec 2013, 1:28 pm

ruveyn wrote:
IreneS wrote:
Time doesn't exist.


When did you come to that conclusion?

ruveyn


Well, in the endless field of now, of course ;)



sonofghandi
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16 Dec 2013, 3:38 pm

SheLcifuR wrote:
I read a few of your posts.... I can't say I have ever obsessed over 'Time.' Yinz are then using extremely elongated words and following what seems to be something along the lines of the quantum level. I never really got into quantum studies, I did graze on it while I was in High school, but I always thought I had Bigger Ideas about the topic... or rather, smaller Ideas, like extremely smaller than anyone can imagine. But anyway, back to the Time thing... I wouldn't Consider Time to be something that exists. Time is a Measurement. It is a Tool we use to help us Collect Data. Time wouldn't 'exist' if We didn't think it to be so. We could just be a bunch of planets and stars and people that are just Being... But somewhere along the 'Cyclical Time Spiral' we decided we didnt want to just BE. We wanted to KNOW.


Well stated. The current thinking in some modern physics circles is tending toward time only having meaning because our brains decided that it did at some point in history (although this idea is hardly a new one). A lot of the mathematical models show that it is quite possible that some particles are travelling backwards (from our perspective) through time to meet themselves going forward in time; like positrons and electrons, which meet and result in annihilation, releasing their combined energy into two equal little packets of energy travelling 180 degrees apart. All particles have their anti-particle somewhere out there coming for it.

Personally, I think that their hypothesis has a lot of work before it will be taken seriously (from a scientific standpoint). It is interesting, though.


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