I think feminism may be turning me into an awful person.
Mysoginist? Maybe not. Awful person? As much as I hate to admit, that may well be happening.
Honestly, I wouldn't be making this thread at all. Shouldn't be, even, but this has been going on so long, and as terribly as gender issue arguments on here go, that's nothing compared to what would happen if I raised this concern at the escapist, trust me.
And for reference, I am male. That may make my views moot, but whatever, this has to be said.
So, every time I see something about feminism, I get angry. Whether it has a point or not. I can even voice my agreement/issues half competently, but there's some raving, rabid part of my mind that is still shouting obscenities. I don't even think about it, it's the first thing that comes to my mind before any rational thoughts get a say.
I've been trying to figure it out, and I think I've cracked it; Feminism does not give a damn about my problems. In fact, most feminists I've seen deny the existence of my problems.
I mean, let's start with the problem most of us are dealing with; Autism. That's not given a say anywhere, let alone among hardcore feminists.
Unemployment; Nope, no cares given. Apparently, I have it easier than them employment wise. I'm not arguing that it isn't, because I have no proof, but I'm still unemployed and still not being given a chance.
Even issues with my own gender. I don't feel like I'm allowed to have emotional problems, because I'm a man, and we're only allowed to be happy or angry. I hate myself because, being a human being with instincts (that I hate) I want to have sex, but I'm ugly, and not charming, and I'm still a virgin so obviously I'd be terrible in bed, thus meaning that nobody wants to have it with me, thus meaning I'm a terrible person for wanting it at all.
That in itself, may be an issue, admittedly. Women intimidate me because there's a chance I may become attracted to them, and that would be terrible, because nobody would ever be attracted to me back, so I'd have to drive myself mad by trying to kill said attraction in my mind whilst praying they don't find out, because when people find out that someone likes them that they don't like back, they hate that person, and I don't want that to happen. They may well represent an emotional threat, through no fault of their own, and this may be the source of this irrational voice.
One thing I can say fairly for sure, people denying that I have problems, that I'm "privileged" does make me angry.
Any thoughts? Contrary to popular belief, I don't like being angry, especially against something that I'm not actually opposed to, so I want these thoughts to die as much as any feminist reading this does.
Feminism is a pretty broad umbrella (just like everything else usually). It highlights many issues that women deal with, but I don't see it as exclusionary. In a dark room a flashlight can only single out a small area, but we know the room is there.
You don't sound like a horrible person, and everyone deserves to be heard. I don't see how feminism ties into self esteem issues or discomfort about sexual urges. You wouldn't be Catholic, now would you?
OliveOilMom
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Age: 60
Gender: Female
Posts: 11,447
Location: About 50 miles past the middle of nowhere
Most of them don't like me either because while I'm a feminist, I'm also a housewife by choice. I've had my choices invalidated left and right by women telling me that because I choose not to work outside the home I am throwing away all the effort by women in the past to give me the opportunity to work. No, I'm not.
_________________
I'm giving it another shot. We will see.
My forum is still there and everyone is welcome to come join as well. There is a private women only subforum there if anyone is interested. Also, there is no CAPTCHA.
The link to the forum is http://www.rightplanet.proboards.com
You're not turning into an awful person. You're just insecure.
Anyway, it's not feminism's job to care about your problems. Feminism cares about problems that women face. Some people have a problem with feminism not caring about everyone, but no-one has criticises ethnic minority groups for not caring about white people. I'm white working class and my group has its own problems, but I don't expect groups representing black or Asian people to care about that.
Individual women may care about your problems as a person. If I considered you a friend, I would care - but not because I'm a feminist. You can't expect a whole social movement that is there to represent a group to which you don't belong to address your problems. No offence.
About feeling unworthy to have a girlfriend, I have the same problem. I have a boyfriend, but I've always been a bit ashamed of liking girls because I feel like they won't like me back. But being female myself, I see that situation in a different way. I can see how you've conflated your insecurity around women with feminism, but they are separate issues. When feminists criticise sexist power-structures or behaviour, they're not criticising you, even if it feels that way.
_________________
Zombies, zombies will tear us apart...again.
Thinking men's views are moot because they're men isn't feminism. It's sexism. Just like thinking women's views are moot because they're women is.
I mean, let's start with the problem most of us are dealing with; Autism. That's not given a say anywhere, let alone among hardcore feminists.
Unemployment; Nope, no cares given. Apparently, I have it easier than them employment wise. I'm not arguing that it isn't, because I have no proof, but I'm still unemployed and still not being given a chance.
I am definitely a feminist, but that doesn't mean I don't give a damn about your problems. I may not understand where you're coming from (although I will try to), but everyone in this world has problems and all of us need to remember that and make allowances for it where we can.
Thinking men are not allowed to have emotional problems is part of what feminism is fighting against. Men are no different from women in that regard--they can be hurt or offended and they need outlets for pain the same as women do. The idea of "only sissies cry" is something feminists have tried to stamp out for decades. When I was raising my children, I never treated my son any differently than my daughters when he was hurt or upset. I didn't scold him for crying and I would never have ridiculed his feelings.
Every attraction does not have to be acted upon. You can admire a woman and try to get to know her as a friend first, can't you?
Any thoughts? Contrary to popular belief, I don't like being angry, especially against something that I'm not actually opposed to, so I want these thoughts to die as much as any feminist reading this does.
It's okay to be angry. We who are feminists are accused of it all the time.
"You can't be a feminist if you believe in equality between the sexes" is a direct quote from a woman who was trying to rabble-rouse back at uni.
Another one told me that no man could ever be a true feminist unless he "... got his d*** cut off".
Still another one proclaimed that whenever a man gets a vasectomy, he is depriving a woman of her "right to choose".
Finally, several different self-proclaimed feminists have told me that each of their particular styles of feminism was the only true feminism, and that all of the others had sold out to male interests (e.g., the "Patriarchy").
Feminism as a movement is as factional as any religion.
You don't sound like a horrible person, and everyone deserves to be heard. I don't see how feminism ties into self esteem issues or discomfort about sexual urges. You wouldn't be Catholic, now would you?
Anyway, it's not feminism's job to care about your problems. Feminism cares about problems that women face. Some people have a problem with feminism not caring about everyone, but no-one has criticises ethnic minority groups for not caring about white people. I'm white working class and my group has its own problems, but I don't expect groups representing black or Asian people to care about that.
Individual women may care about your problems as a person. If I considered you a friend, I would care - but not because I'm a feminist. You can't expect a whole social movement that is there to represent a group to which you don't belong to address your problems. No offence.
About feeling unworthy to have a girlfriend, I have the same problem. I have a boyfriend, but I've always been a bit ashamed of liking girls because I feel like they won't like me back. But being female myself, I see that situation in a different way. I can see how you've conflated your insecurity around women with feminism, but they are separate issues. When feminists criticise sexist power-structures or behaviour, they're not criticising you, even if it feels that way.
Every attraction does not have to be acted upon. You can admire a woman and try to get to know her as a friend first, can't you?
Every attraction does not have to be acted upon. You can admire a woman and try to get to know her as a friend first, can't you?
This is going to sound totally trite, but the way you have talked about yourself in your posts, it is obvious you have an incredible amount of self-hatred going. Until you fix that, you are never going to be able to have a relationship with anyone, because you won't believe they love you. It is exhausting to be in a relationship with someone who feels about themselves the way you do. Please, please consider getting some counseling or therapy.
Jacoby
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Age: 32
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Location: Permanently banned by power tripping mods lol this forum is trash
I don't think feminism is the source of your problems regardless of the fact that it doesn't represent or care about you or issues you find relevant. Feminism is woman-centric, thus the name obviously. I wouldn't heed much attention to certain feminist theories and ideas that bother you, most people don't. Take care of yourself.
Every attraction does not have to be acted upon. You can admire a woman and try to get to know her as a friend first, can't you?
This is going to sound totally trite, but the way you have talked about yourself in your posts, it is obvious you have an incredible amount of self-hatred going. Until you fix that, you are never going to be able to have a relationship with anyone, because you won't believe they love you. It is exhausting to be in a relationship with someone who feels about themselves the way you do. Please, please consider getting some counseling or therapy.
The problem always was that I can't believe I'm worth more because everyone else seems to better at this kind of stuff than me. Relationships and jobs, two things I can't seem to get a hold of, but everyone else can.
Anyway, it's not feminism's job to care about your problems. Feminism cares about problems that women face. Some people have a problem with feminism not caring about everyone, but no-one has criticises ethnic minority groups for not caring about white people. I'm white working class and my group has its own problems, but I don't expect groups representing black or Asian people to care about that.
Individual women may care about your problems as a person. If I considered you a friend, I would care - but not because I'm a feminist. You can't expect a whole social movement that is there to represent a group to which you don't belong to address your problems. No offence.
About feeling unworthy to have a girlfriend, I have the same problem. I have a boyfriend, but I've always been a bit ashamed of liking girls because I feel like they won't like me back. But being female myself, I see that situation in a different way. I can see how you've conflated your insecurity around women with feminism, but they are separate issues. When feminists criticise sexist power-structures or behaviour, they're not criticising you, even if it feels that way.
You might consider looking into some MRA (Men's Rights' Advocates) or MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) organizations. They might not actually solve any of your problems, but at least you would find a degree of commiseration.
As for finding a girlfriend: you might be able to pick up some pointers from the PUAs (Pick-Up Artists). But, if you have no income, and live with your parents: a lot of women would really look down their noses at you. You might want to tackle this problem, first.
Some of the nastier feminist blogs can be pretty bloody awful about it though, even to people who are trying to see their point of view.
Anyway, it's not feminism's job to care about your problems. Feminism cares about problems that women face. Some people have a problem with feminism not caring about everyone, but no-one has criticises ethnic minority groups for not caring about white people. I'm white working class and my group has its own problems, but I don't expect groups representing black or Asian people to care about that.
Individual women may care about your problems as a person. If I considered you a friend, I would care - but not because I'm a feminist. You can't expect a whole social movement that is there to represent a group to which you don't belong to address your problems. No offence.
About feeling unworthy to have a girlfriend, I have the same problem. I have a boyfriend, but I've always been a bit ashamed of liking girls because I feel like they won't like me back. But being female myself, I see that situation in a different way. I can see how you've conflated your insecurity around women with feminism, but they are separate issues. When feminists criticise sexist power-structures or behaviour, they're not criticising you, even if it feels that way.
You might consider looking into some MRA (Men's Rights' Advocates) or MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) organizations. They might not actually solve any of your problems, but at least you would find a degree of commiseration.
As for finding a girlfriend: you might be able to pick up some pointers from the PUAs (Pick-Up Artists). But, if you have no income, and live with your parents: a lot of women would really look down their noses at you. You might want to tackle this problem, first.
As for PUAs, I'm not too comfortable with using those kinds of tricks. It seems all too much like the person I desperately don't want to be.
Last edited by Lostathome on 24 Dec 2013, 2:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Anyway, it's not feminism's job to care about your problems. Feminism cares about problems that women face. Some people have a problem with feminism not caring about everyone, but no-one has criticises ethnic minority groups for not caring about white people. I'm white working class and my group has its own problems, but I don't expect groups representing black or Asian people to care about that.
Individual women may care about your problems as a person. If I considered you a friend, I would care - but not because I'm a feminist. You can't expect a whole social movement that is there to represent a group to which you don't belong to address your problems. No offence.
About feeling unworthy to have a girlfriend, I have the same problem. I have a boyfriend, but I've always been a bit ashamed of liking girls because I feel like they won't like me back. But being female myself, I see that situation in a different way. I can see how you've conflated your insecurity around women with feminism, but they are separate issues. When feminists criticise sexist power-structures or behaviour, they're not criticising you, even if it feels that way.
You might consider looking into some MRA (Men's Rights' Advocates) or MGTOW (Men Going Their Own Way) organizations. They might not actually solve any of your problems, but at least you would find a degree of commiseration.
As for finding a girlfriend: you might be able to pick up some pointers from the PUAs (Pick-Up Artists). But, if you have no income, and live with your parents: a lot of women would really look down their noses at you. You might want to tackle this problem, first.
^^^Great advice on how to become a more awful person and ensuring future celebacy. Hangout at a men's right reddit long enough and you'll be a certified p**** reppelent in no time.
Femenism and women (you use the two terms interchangably in your posts) aren't responsible for your Autism, or your virginity or your unemployment. Step one is to stop scapegoating and start taking responsibility for yourself. Which is something that the very topic of this thread indicates you aren't ready or willing to do.
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