Why Are So Many Popular Atheists European?

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I've noticed that among proclaimed "intellectual atheists", many of them are older men from places like England, Scotland, Ireland, France, etc. I've wondered why that is for the last several years, and it still puzzles me. Any ideas?

They just swing that way?

Well 2 out of the "4 horsemen" of atheism (Sam Harris and Daniel Dennett) are from the US, and a third (Christopher Hitchens) actually lived in the US for 30 years until his death.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Atheis ... Apocalypse

But the fourth horseman - Richard Dawkins, obviously - is likely more famous than the other 3 combined, which might give the impression that the movement is Euro-centric.

Because Europe is an atheist's mecca? You have only to read up on Karl Marx. Europe has a rich history of challenging the establishment, especially in Germany and France where philosophy dominated.

Dont know if its true -but if it is true- its hardly surprising.


If more evangelical athiests come from western europe than from the USA it would be the expected thing- for the same reason that more evangelical muslims come from Pakistan than from the USA- thats the culture of the place.



In eastern Europe they still fight wars over religion. But in western Europe the faith has been collapsing for decades. Six percent go to church in the UK, compared to the 60 percent who do so in the USA. Western European politicians (like Tony Blair) have to pretend to be less religious than they are while in office, while atheist politicians in the USA have to pretend to be religous (like Ronald Reagan). So you would expect that western Europe would produce more evangelical atheists per capita than does the USA.

Why religion is declining in Western Europe more than it is here in the USA is the question to ask.

Because Western Europe is industrially developed and advanced, tending to have many Universities and hence "intellectuals" in general. To boot, Western European states tend to have stronger welfare states. In the same way that Hamas gained ground by providing social services the state sector was unable, Churches in nations with weaker welfare states (i.e. the US, various African nations, etc) fill the void and thus dominate the culture.

http://www.edge.org/3rd_culture/paul07/ ... index.html

I would say there's on pretty prominent who, while a Dutch citizen, didn't start out in Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali

In part, I put the rise of atheism in Western Europe down to the better science education we have here for the 11 to 16 year olds. The facts of evolution are taught as standard as part of science education (as it should be) but in parts of America evolution is treated as an inconvenient truth and is played down by some educational establishments or is simply treated as forbidden knowledge as in some Islamic countries. Thus in America, more kids are brought up under the illusion that the biblical creation of mankind is correct and thus the creation myth perpetuates there.

The breaking point for me was aged 11 when I learned about evolution in science. It became clear to me that biblical creation was just mythology and that in turn made me question the existence of a god. More investigations over the subsequent years showed that either god was hiding his existence very successfully... or he didn't exist.

I know some Americans who have to pretend to believe in God and also attend church despite being atheists... simply because if they admitted to being atheist they would find it difficult to progress with their career or they would face being ostracised by their peers or older family members. However, it looks like America is gradually moving towards the tipping point where atheism will be accepted by most as mainstream and atheists will face less discrimination. It is just a matter of time in my opinion.

In Western Europe (specifically England and France where I talk from experience) Christianity is generally regarded as an eccentric and dying hobby that is irrelevant to people's lives. I know very few people who attend church or who even talk about religion - it is literally irrelevant to them. It isn't even correct to classify those people as atheists, agnostics or believers - a better description would be apatheist (apathetic towards theology). Though I guess this closely equates to the word "atheist" anyway in the pure meaning of the word - "a lack of belief" in gods. Ask them if they believe in the Christian God and they will be baffled - like you just asked them about the plumage of a lesser spotted woodpecker... they have no idea and don't care either.

I'm a European, and when I was younger, I used to think of the U.S. as THE place of scientific progress and I remember I wondered why computer games simulating american cities, had churches in them.
I wondered why americans would need a church. They were THE place of progress, after all. This was in the 1990's and early 2000s.

Now, as a grown-up, I realize how mistaken I was. It is a backwatered place, the U.S. is virtually Latin America with European technology.

Here in Australia, evolution is also taught as part of standard science curriculum.

I and a lot of others here find it very difficult to understand the influence the Christian doctrine has on politics and the general populace. I realize the influence they have due to their ability to get people to vote at elections, but the influence still seems very strong.

Maybe we are better at being ratbags, and like a bit more independance. Mind you we do have our own collection religious nuts, and door knocking evangelists who go around in pairs for im(moral) support.

Cheers

Oh yeah, well European jackets have the zippers on the wrong side! How's that for technology? Just you wait until we get our quantum computer up and running, just you wait and see.

I don't mind being compared to Latin America, though. I liked it, and I want to see more.

Meh; you are assuming that China will sell you all the necessary components to build it.

The components are from Taiwan, the real Republic of China.

Carl Sagan in "demon Haunted World" puts it down to a paucity of quality education in the US, especially in understanding science, he points out that to excel in sports is to be hero worshiped yet to excel in science is all but ignored and worse still vilified. He says that science is taught as a compendium of laws and equations rather than being explained. In other words people do not understand the basic principles underpinning scientific discovery, for if they did they would be awe struck by the work done and would not be able to deny scientific theories and laws, they would also understand the vital importance of of exploratory and casual research and would support its funding.

As he points out regarding James Clerk Maxwell "Maxwell's greatest contribution was his discovery that electricity and magnetism, of all things, join together to become light. The now conventional understanding of the electromagnetic spectrum - running in wavelength from gamma rays to X-rays to ultraviolet light to visible light to infrared light to radio waves - is due to Maxwell. So is radio, television and radar. But Maxwell wasn't after any of this. He was interested in how electricity makes magnetism and vice versa." the full chapter is here In other words research JUST to understand the laws of nature is so important to our future existence.

If you understand how scientific research works you must by definition change your view on all manner of subjective beliefs. If people really understood the scientific method they would accept its discoveries, Most people do not, and this is why 46% of Americans believe that acceptance of scientific knowledge is arbitrary and therefore choose to believe in creation.


Movifan this is why I asked you to investigate the discoveries and their ensuing inventions that allow you to debate on this forum (and why I know you will not).

That is very true of America. A few years ago when Sarah Palin was the running mate for the vice-presidency, she gave a speech in front of a crowded hall of people where she demonised science and ridiculed scientists and scientific research. The crowd gave her lots of applause and cheers, so her message was obviously well received. I only know of this because it made international news and I watched it on TV. Everyone in Europe laughed at her stupidity and was shocked at her degree of ignorance about science. She was literally promoting ignorance as a virtue... and getting applauded for it! It was absolutely incredible and dumbfounding to watch. If this is representative of American politicians and American mentality, then it is no surprise that America is a country in decline, educationally, scientifically and economically.

I hadn't noticed that. I had noticed that "atheist discussions" tend to centre around Americans who I otherwise would only barely be aware of, such as Bill Nighy, PZ Myers, Lawrence Krauss, Sam Harris. I hasten to group Feynman and Sagan in here, because they're famous in their own right, as are Penn and Teller, and Daniel Dennett. (Apologies if any of those people are actually Canadian or some other nationality)

Of course, Dawkins is the most famous (he was already an established science writer and had written books like The Blind Watchmaker before The God Delusion made him the figurehead of the New Atheism movement). Then there's Christopher Hitchens. Stephen Hawking will occasionally raise his atheism, but isn't really a rent-a-quote like Hitchens or Dawkins. Stephen Fry, on the other hand, very much is.

Like TallyMan said, "atheism" isn't seen as much of an issue in the UK, whereas in the USA it is. I guess on one hand famous British people are more likely to be atheists, but American ones are more likely to make a big show of it.

ALSO, there are so many Americans that even a small minority can outnumber a significant minority of Brits.