Is there "good" without God?

Post Reply New Topic

I don't have any problems with your suggestion. I simply don't credit it with any validity or value. The world is full of messengers for various gods and belief systems. Yours is just one of the many and of no more validity than anyone else's absolute authority.



And does does that mean you accept Muslims external final moral authority that it is good to proselytise the unbelievers or to kill those who refuse to be converted?



Emotional tantrums? Where did you get that from? You speak of absolute truth but in reality all you offer is dogma. No religion is 100% true - all are false. The notion that upsets Christians is that their entire belief system is founded upon make belief. It is mythology and legend rolled into fantasy. No serious minded secularists or atheists are going to accept such mumbo jumbo as a basis for morality.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3MLJUOW9NE[/youtube]

If there is no god, what is good? Then there could be multiple, conflicting definitions of good. No one has any authority for saying what is right and wrong, only what helps humanity and promotes happiness and what hurts it. Most people accept hurting humanity as "bad" and helping it as "good", but there is nothing that says it has to be that way.

the language of moral realism arises out of a desire to treat moral intentions as existing independent of any particular human minds. this is typically accomplished by locating them in the mind of god, where they are allegedly unaffected by human desire. abandoning an absolute basis for morality, one may continue using moral realist language metaphorically, understanding the "moral ground" to be a provisional intersubjective ground, an abstraction supported exclusively by human desire and consensus. in that case, there can still be "good" in the sense of what we agree to want for one another. however, retaining language rooted in the assumption of an actual moral ground tends to leave a moral ground shaped hole in one's head, which may lead to silly questions.

Last edited by wornlight on 22 Jan 2014, 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Normally we go by instincts as humans we are social creatures and naturally we look out for eachother as a community in our group similar to how chimps are in their groups. If an outsider which poses a threat tries to attack our group we will protect by any means necessary. A mother has the instincts of looking out for the well being of her off spring and love and nurture it it is seen in both humans and animals. Good is what actions that will lead you in a possitive outcome not only for you but for those surrounding you bad is what would lead to a negative outcome for you and those around you for your actions. There is no magical man to tell you that, I mean its simple common sense not to go run around killing and raping people because its a rather messed up thing to do. But if a god existed and told you to stone your 4 year old son to death because he does not believe is a rightious and good thing or raping non believing women is a good thing then that is your definition of good. I dont need an invisible man to be a good citizen of society I just follow the laws and not willfully be an as*hole to everyone i meet. Simply treat those the way you want to be treated its as simple as that.

Last edited by AspieOtaku on 22 Jan 2014, 4:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Christianity is based on the belief that the Bible relates actual events.

Belief proves nothing.

The fact that the first written account of the life of Jesus (the Gospel According to Mark) was written in Greek (not Aramaic), about 25 to 35 years after his death, obviates another fact -- that the Gospels were not written as on-the-scene eyewitness reports, but were instead written from the collective memories of people who allegedly witnessed the related events.

30 years can distort anyone's memory; and the Gospels of Matthew, Luke and John later embellished on an already-distorted account of what may (or may not) have been actual events. If one reads the Gospels in their chronologic order (Mark, Matthew, Luke and then John), one notes an increasingly supernatural aspect to what was originally a rather mundane account of one man's ministry.

Note that the chapters on the "Virgin Birth" appear only in Matthew and Luke, which were written sometime between 60 and 100 C.E., and that both Mark and John omit the "Virgin Birth" story entirely.

Yes, that is morality in a nutshell without all the bullcrap and divine mumbo jumbo wrapped around it. Treat others as you want to be treated. Most of us learn during infancy that it is wrong to hurt others or to steal because we don't like it when others steal from us or hurt us. Why make morality more complicated than it needs to be?

Profit.

If I can preach a sermon that makes you feel guilty enough to give me money as a form of atonement, then I could theoretically become wealthy by doing the same to dozens -- or hundreds -- of people at once.

Then I could offer psychological counseling (at $200 per session) to remove that guilt, and send you back to church!

Yes ... greed is good ...

unfounded, without merit, ridiculous, nonsense, absurd, and demonstrably false.

I clicked on YES.

Nol one has ever heard the Real God. The God of the priests, the preachers, the rabbis, the immams, the prophets and the various religious fanatics is a fevered product of their own imaginations. The Real God does not communicate with us nor are we capable of communicating with the Real God. It is where It is and we are where we are.

ruveyn

Then how is it relevant to us?

You just defined good. Good can exist in the sense that it can be defined, but that is your opinion (and I think the opinion of most humans) of good. Good, unless there is a god, is not a universal truth/concept/thing/whatever. God is necessary for a universal definition of good. Humans can define it for our own purposes, but in the grand scheme of the universe, our actions are not good or bad, they simply are. If there was a god ruling over this universe, then he/she/it could define good to be any set of actions/intents that he wants.

Even if God exists, Good is best known for it rarity among humans.

ruveyn

Shes definately right about 4:45