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thinkinginpictures
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25 Jan 2014, 4:01 pm

From a religious point of view, everything about the world points in the direction of Satan creating it.

The world is inherently evil. Just look at the Natural Selection, known as Darwinism.
It says that the strongest or most fit will survive, regardless of its good deeds. Actually, quite the contrary, doing bad, selfish deeds,
is rewarded in this world. Just look at how Capitalism thrives, and that winning a war gives profit.

There are people who then claim that material goods are not the most important. The most important is altruism and
compassion and sympathy.

Again, they are wrong. Because none of these things can exists without material goods to carry them out into action.
(What is developmental aid worth if you ain't got the material goods to build a well for water?)

Then there are people who claim there is also good stuff in this world. But I have two objections about this:

1) The goodness is a minority and the values of the goodness is far surpassed by the values of the evil.
Even if there only happens 3 evil events and a thousand good events, the result of the good events cannot outweight the evil.

2) Most often, if not always, something good always has a bad side. There is never something that is so good that it ain't bad for something else.

Our individual perception of what is "good" vs. what is "evil" also plays a significant role here:

Because you would always find someone who will believe something that others would find good, to be evil,
and you cannot always find something that everyone can agree is good for everyone, there will always be more of what people percieve as being evil, than there is of what
people percieve as good.

While the usual saying that goes like "there ain't something as bad as it ain't good for something" maybe true, by investigating the facts or simply the philosophy behind that saying, you
will always find something bad too.

We can write it mathematically:

Everything bad is always good for something => Good = Bad.
So Good is equally as bad as it is good and vise-versa.

But you can also find examples of something that is bad for everything.
Such as the fact of life: Suffering. Suffering is always bad. Nobody wins anything by an individual suffering.
Torture is deliberate causing suffering on its victim, so you COULD say that torture is good (for someone else than the victim). But the fact that we are tortuing the victim has a cause: A war,
or the victim being tortured is suspected of being a terrorist. If he is not a terrorist, nobody wins anything from torturing him. If he is a terrorist, the torture will only, at the very best, avoid yet another
catastrophy.

Which leave us with this equation of the relationship between good and evil:

Good = 1
Evil = 1
Sometimes Only Evil = 0.00000001 (or some other value of evilness, above 0).

Relationship: Good - Evil - (Sometimes Only Evil) = 0.00000001 => There is more evil in this world that good.

Which leave me to conclude that Satan created this world.

IF we are about to say something positive about the suffering at all, it is that this suffering will EVENTUALLY lead to Death (which is good, because then you ain't suffering anymore).

So maybe God wants us to wage war against each other, and to murder and execute each other, and eventually destroy the Earth with our Nuclear bombs?

And maybe Satan, the deciever, wants us to keep on living, and that arts, music and other joys of life, exists ONLY to tempt us into continue living, until we suffer a horrible death?

Maybe the answer to the Meaning of Life is Death, and that we should refrain from reproducing, and we should refrain from any joy of life?



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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25 Jan 2014, 4:11 pm

Hmm. What I see is Satan being thought of as this world while Jesus, not really God, but Jesus, is the heaven where there's no pain, only salvation.
The world is thought of as evil because people literally are in pain when they are living. To be alive is very uncomfortable. Just being born looks incredibly tortuous. You have to exit through the narrow birth canal and cervix unless you are fortunate enough to experience the random c section as you passage in. Most living things are born of pain and suffering.

So I can see why humans created this Satanic construct to come to terms with the agony they experience.

Even pain relieving drugs cause heart ache and discomfort in the end. Drugs to relieve you of the suffering that accompanies living eventually stop working and not only that, you become addicted so you are stuck taking something that no longer works and if you try to stop, you suffer more.

So yes it does seem like the world is nothing but evil, even when you observe the natural processes of this planet, they are violent and wicked.
Animals killing and eating animals and if they do not, they die of starvation. It can be too much. I don't think Satan created this. I just think it's how it is. Humans are very unfortunate in a lot of ways for being so disconnected from instinct and will, trapped in the terror and agony that accompanies the mind and thinking. Another manifestation of this Satanic state and this goes back to the idea of Satan disguised as a snake enticing the instinct driven human living in the wild, a certain type of innocence, feeding them the knowledge of pain, that consciousness that you see all around you and can make life even more painful to deal with.

I am fascinated by this unique mystery that is human.



thinkinginpictures
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25 Jan 2014, 4:23 pm

I am aware of the perception that the world "just is". That there there is no overall creation or mystery behind it.

But I disagree. As you mention Humans, humans are THE ONLY animals that have a self-perception to the degree that they can understand their own horrible future and philosphize about it.
I have never heard of Dolphins or Monkeys that face the inevitable fear of Death by philosophizing about it and picking apart all the possible future scenarios, only inside their head, as humans do.

Other animals fear anxiety of something new or dangerous. But humans? Humans can sit on Death Row and await their inevitable near-future of sitting in a chair, being roasted alive for several minutes.
And in the hours before they are placed in the Chair, they know EVERY little detail in the process, and they know EVERYTHING that will happen to them.

That makes humanity the most unfortunate living creature EVER. And I have seen too much patterns in my life to NOT say that this is simply random.
To create a universe wherein Humans live, is the most evil, the most cruel thing EVER to be done. It is too cruel to be random.

To add to the evilness, humanity is causing its own evilness. It is like being bound by a rope with a knot that is tightened the more you move.

The very thing that is called Evolution, is evil in and of itself, as it further confirms this tightened knot of suffering everytime you move/try to get out of it.

The only ones to figure out how to make such a "knot" is God or Satan. I pick the latter for my guess.



Last edited by thinkinginpictures on 25 Jan 2014, 4:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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25 Jan 2014, 4:30 pm

I don't understand why people see Satan as being bad anyway.


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25 Jan 2014, 4:38 pm

babybird wrote:
I don't understand why people see Satan as being bad anyway.


Satan is doing a lot of "good" stuff.
After all, he gave us food, shelter, and plenty to drink.

Only to keep us alive for enough time to face our toturous death.

He also gave us the ability to enjoy pleasure, such as looking at arts, or listening to music.
Or telling jokes and laughing.

Everything that is joy, that can be attributed either directly to Satan, or as something that Satan would appreciate.

Only to make us climb higher and higher up the ladder of joy, then to pull the ladder away from our feet, so that the fall will be long, torturous and horrible, and our death will only eventually come to us,
but most certain is our fate of being disabled.



Last edited by thinkinginpictures on 25 Jan 2014, 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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25 Jan 2014, 4:39 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:

I am aware of the perception that the world "just is". That there there is no overall creation or mystery behind it.

But I disagree. As you mention Humans, humans are THE ONLY animals that have a self-perception to the degree that they can understand their own horrible future and philosphize about it.
I have never heard of Dolphins or Monkeys that face the inevitable fear of Death by philosophizing about it and picking apart all the possible future scenarios, only inside their head, as humans do.

Other animals fear anxiety of something new or dangerous. But humans? Humans can sit on Death Row and await their inevitable near-future of sitting in a chair, being roasted alive for several minutes.
And in the hours before they are placed in the Chair, they know EVERY little detail in the process, and they know EVERYTHING that will happen to them.

That makes humanity the most unfortunate living creature EVER. And I have seen too much patterns in my life to NOT say that this is simply random.
To create a universe wherein Humans live, is the most evil, the most cruel thing EVER to be done. It is too cruel to be random.

Yes, I agree, and this is why I consider humans to be in acute psychological pain most of their lives. They have to deal with their own tortured psyches. People do not evaluate the toll consciousness takes. It is a heavy one, indeed. You mention the example of being on death row, knowing, day in and day out your fate and waiting it out for so long only to face it one day. No other species puts members of it's own kind through this. Even species that fight their own members aren't this cruel.
Humans engage in all forms of escapism to avoid this pain yet it's only temporary.
It's not Satanic to me because I don't believe in Satan. I believe in life and reality and what that means. You can call it Satanic if that's what makes you comfortable. I do not believe in Satan as an outside entity, only a concept humans created to deal with painful truths they cannot handle. I think humans are evil and in t he context that living could be called evil since it involves so much sordidness. It's just a fact of life. Humans try to alleviate it which you could say is noble but they often find they cannot successfully do it.

Quote:
To add to the evilness, humanity is causing its own evilness. It is like being bound by a rope with a knot that is tightened the more you move.

The very thing that is called Evolution, is evil in and of itself, as it further confirms this tightened knot of suffering everytime you move/try to get out of it.

The only ones to figure out how to make such a "knot" is God or Satan. I pick the latter for my guess.

Humans are trapped in the life cycle just like any other creature but we can make it easier on ourselves by not thinking so deeply and just accepting the conditions of our lives. We can help each other out and choose not to hurt one another if possible. We can make wise choices that will benefit our environment.



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25 Jan 2014, 4:40 pm

babybird wrote:
I don't understand why people see Satan as being bad anyway.

Because Satan is the "evil" construct. Humans created it to deal with chaos and forces they cannot comprehend. Someone gets angry, kills another, or gets greedy and lustful, same result, and they just blame Satan instead of owning up to their own dark natures and lack of self control.



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25 Jan 2014, 4:46 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
babybird wrote:
I don't understand why people see Satan as being bad anyway.

Because Satan is the "evil" construct. Humans created it to deal with chaos and forces they cannot comprehend. Someone gets angry, kills another, or gets greedy and lustful, same result, and they just blame Satan instead of owning up to their own dark natures and lack of self control.


My idea of Satan is based off my experiences with people.
They seem to follow Satan's temptations.

It's not that I attribute the evil deeds of other people directly to Satan.
In-fact, I believe this is merely an indirect cause-effect relation as a result of following Satan's temptations.



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25 Jan 2014, 4:49 pm

thinkinginpictures wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
babybird wrote:
I don't understand why people see Satan as being bad anyway.

Because Satan is the "evil" construct. Humans created it to deal with chaos and forces they cannot comprehend. Someone gets angry, kills another, or gets greedy and lustful, same result, and they just blame Satan instead of owning up to their own dark natures and lack of self control.


My idea of Satan is based off my experiences with people.
They seem to follow Satan's temptations.

It's not that I attribute the evil deeds of other people directly to Satan.
In-fact, I believe this is merely an indirect cause-effect relation as a result of following Satan's temptations.

Many people do what they want to and if it happens to be what Satan represents, they look Satanic. If they give in to the base emotions, hate, anger, lust, they can pay the price because these are often the foundation of criminal enterprise. Just like wise Yoda said, it's a path to the darkside.



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25 Jan 2014, 5:16 pm

I don't think that Satan is real. But I get what you are saying.

I think that from a moral point of view certain people might consider me to be a bad person, just based on how I choose to survive and earn a living. I switch off my conscience when I do my job and I earn money. I love it. I'm not a criminal but I am a pest.

Sometimes I do analyse what I do and my conscience takes a hammering.

But then if it was up to the Christians we would all be kissing Jesus's ring.


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25 Jan 2014, 5:49 pm

The world is not inherently evil; it was hit by a massive curse at the time of the Fall. Satan can't create anything; he just distorts what God originally made.


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25 Jan 2014, 5:53 pm

^^And what makes you so certain that it's not your god who has distorted things?^^


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25 Jan 2014, 5:58 pm

Moviefan2k4 wrote:
The world is not inherently evil; it was hit by a massive curse at the time of the Fall. Satan can't create anything; he just distorts what God originally made.

See, I have a problem with the idea God would curse the world. That doesn't sound like a very nice God.



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25 Jan 2014, 7:03 pm

the viking equivalent of Satan, Loki, is a far more interesting character. He is more of a neutral-evil trickster than a absolutist epitome of evil and darkness.


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25 Jan 2014, 7:14 pm

Life is no good if we're all lying in the gutter waiting to be made into saints.

You have to take the bull by the horns sometimes and live a little. Who give a s**t? I certainly f*****g don't.

I say good luck to anyone who tries to better themselves.

God, who's he?

Life is about survival.

It took me years to learn that it is a dog eat dog world, and there is no going back from that.


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25 Jan 2014, 7:23 pm

babybird wrote:
Life is no good if we're all lying in the gutter waiting to be made into saints.

You have to take the bull by the horns sometimes and live a little. Who give a sh**? I certainly f***ing don't.

I say good luck to anyone who tries to better themselves.

God, who's he?

Life is about survival.

It took me years to learn that it is a dog eat dog world, and there is no going back from that.

But what does all that mean?
People do eventually get caught. It's far wiser to play by the rules imo.